ryanair lossmaking without state subsidies

[sn26567]

Dutch: http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF20120626_010&ref=nieuwsoverzicht
French: http://www.lecho.be/actualite/entreprises_transport/Ryanair_serait_en_perte_sans_les_subsides.9207295-3017.art
English: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-26/rivals-report-says-support-saves-ryanair-from-loss-echo-says.html

in short, FR gets about 793,1 million euro state subsidies, makes 503 million euro profit and would have loses of around 305 million without the state subsidies.

then they have the nerve to make such announcements on their website like

Ryanair, UK’s favourite airline, announced today (23rd Sept) the launch of the guaranteed lowest fares in Europe i.e. free. Ryanair now operates 771 routes across Europe offering the best route network and the guaranteed lowest fares with no fuel surcharges. At the same time thousands of consumers face increased costs when travelling on high fare airlines or find themselves stranded after booking with flaky airlines, Ryanair remains the only European airline to guarantee the lowest fares on every route and no fuel surcharges as well.

[Acid-drop]

sncb/nmbs also makes loses without subsidies

[RoMax]

sncb/nmbs also makes loses without subsidies

Wow what a comparison... does that make a difference? Private companies shouldn't be profitable if they can't do it without subsidies. Ever heard about fair competition? 'I don't think' the snbc/nbms has competion, in wich case their subsidies would make the competition unfair...

[regi]

sncb/nmbs also makes loses without subsidies

This subject is about Ryanair, not Easyjet, Carrefour or the railways.

[airazurxtror]

As far as one knows, Ryanair receive no state subsidy, state subsidies are forbidden by the European Commission.
A lot of bullshit. The European Airlines Association is off its rockers, as usual.
They just deserve Gustin as president !

[cnc]

As far as one knows, Ryanair receive no state subsidy

haha i guess you also believe in the tooth fairy and santa.
FR actually demands besides low handling and airport fees money per year per flight and its more then a million per flight

[andorra-airport]

FR actually demands besides low handling and airport fees money per year per flight and its more then a million per flight

FR can "demand". No other airline wants to fly to the middle of nowhere (Paris Vatry for example).

[Stij]

And here goes the carrousel again yet for another round... Catch "de flosh" and you may ride again!!! Buy three tickets and the fourth ride is for free!!!

[sean1982]

exactly stij, some of you should get a life

How much profit would KLM/AF, BA/IB, Bru AIr, LH, etc make without these so-called "state subsidies" ??
Ow Wait, They don't make a profit at all

The trial has been done, the european courts have ruled it's not state subsidies, all the rest is BS

FR can "demand". No other airline wants to fly to the middle of nowhere (Paris Vatry for example).

Still they make profit, still their airplanes are full. Maybe other airlines should think twice about flying to middle of nowhere airports if they want their fair size of the cake

[cnc]

How much profit would KLM/AF, BA/IB, Bru AIr, LH, etc make without these so-called "state subsidies" ??
Ow Wait, They don't make a profit at all

you learned math in school no? try the operational result + 793,1 million euro
or better yet, try to look at the operational result from FR before trying to act superior

FR can "demand". No other airline wants to fly to the middle of nowhere (Paris Vatry for example).

lets follow your way of thinking,
i want to set up a store in the middle of nowhere. i should get a lot of tax money just because i want to open a store there + i should get more tax money for each client i get so i can make a profit and offer lower prices then the other stores in a 100km radius because i need to attract clients willing to drive 100km to my store.
where the hell is the logic in that?

[andorra-airport]

FR can "demand". No other airline wants to fly to the middle of nowhere (Paris Vatry for example).

lets follow your way of thinking,
i want to set up a store in the middle of nowhere. i should get a lot of tax money just because i want to open a store there + i should get more tax money for each client i get so i can make a profit and offer lower prices then the other stores in a 100km radius because i need to attract clients willing to drive 100km to my store.
where the hell is the logic in that?

The logic in that is that nobody is waiting for your shop. But local government in remote areas are waiting to give money to an airline like FR, because they hope it will create jobs, and attracts tourists, or at least people, who spend money. If they would not "invest", nothing would happen in such areas, with impoverishment as a possible end result.

[cnc]

The logic in that is that nobody is waiting for your shop. But local government in remote areas are waiting to give money to an airline like FR, because they hope it will create jobs, and attracts tourists, or at least people, who spend money. If they would not "invest", nothing would happen in such areas, with impoverishment as a possible end result.

i agree but it doesn't justify unfair competition by giving excess subsidies

[Stij]

Just for the record... my post was there to indicate that we had this discussion already a zillion times.

I think every subsidy should be stopped and that taxes should lowered accordingly. Subsidies exist because st*p*d politicians (no specific party or region) want their st*p*d smile on television so voters have the illusion they actually do something else than running away with all the money and getting re-elected. Think about it, we pay (to much) taxes and after a lot of bureaucrats and politicians took their share we get a little bit back in such a subsidy and we all say "Thank-you". If taxes would be lower we could afford to spend it on the stuff we like and even more as we need less expensive politicians and bureaucrats.

However, as I fly FR a few times a year, I can't really complain, as I get at least some of my taxes back. I refuse however to say "thank-you" as I consider that I paid the subsidy myself.

Actually, now that I think of it, airazurxtror, as a real FR addict, you should say thank-you to all the Belgian forum members!

Cheers,

Stij

[andorra-airport]

i agree but it doesn't justify unfair competition by giving excess subsidies

Unfair competion? What competition? Every airline is free to fly to those places (and cash that excess money which nobody seems to want). But all those loss making "big" boys want to fly to the premium airports.

[sean1982]

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/942/Economie/article/detail/1462128/2012/06/29/Redding-Brussels-Airlines-mag-30-miljoen-euro-kosten.dhtml

30 million euro state subsidies for Bru Air (and others) = reduced fares for all belgian taxpayers??
Something deep inside tells me .... euhmm no

will we see a thread in a few months: "Bru. Air still loss making despite state subsidies"?

[shockcooling]

Andorra-airport, this is just my thought, but it's not because an airline has one flight every couple of days to an airport in the middle of nowhere that they are getting these subsidies so quickly, eg. BRU-NYO.
It only works when a "big" boy like Ryanair starts flying from several bases or is going to set up a base there, something what a traditional airline is unable to do, because they just don't have the planes for it. Remember Ryanair ordered more than 200 737s, they had to go somewhere.
As Ryanair is not bonded to a base/city, they try to ask this region or airport for lower landing or handling fees, if their requirements will not be met, they simply leave the place (sometimes to come back again ). To name several; Reus, Manchester, Girona, Edinburgh, Marseille, Belfast, Prague, Kerry,... where I can't imagine those regions are actually happy that they're gone...
To Montenegro, Ryanair is invited to fly whole year round, but that's of course not in the interest of Ryanair, as they only want to fly in the busy summer time. Quid quo pro!

Anyway, this fairy-tale can't continue much longer. Change is in the 'air', the EU is not allowing the salaries to be paid out of Ireland when based somewhere else (with 10 year transitional measures). Dark clouds hang over the financial future for many EU countries. First sign is EasyJet pulling out of Madrid as a base (where they say the Spanish economy is a contributing factor).
Ryanair is pulling out of many airports in Morocco, this is just the beginning...