Brussels airlines future and financial perspective

[regi]

Nobody pays his airport taxes separately nor does anybody reroutes because some airport taxes are too high as long as the total fare is okay because obviously nobody cares how the airlines split out the total ticket fare between themselves, the airports and their handlling agents. That some airports seems to think otherwise is highly indicative of just how out of sync they are with reality: those airports are seriously overrating their own significance.

A little bit of history:

I remember the time (I must be getting old) when many airports were billing the airport taxes separately: the passenger had to fork out the airport tax in the local currency, which was often a major inconvenience, but at least it had the merit of clarity. The passenger would know exactly how cheap or expensive the airport was. In that sense, the passenger was really a customer of the airport.

For the convenience of the passenger, the airlines asked for this tax to be incorporated in the ticket price. It was much easier for tha passenger, who could nevertheless still check on his paper ticket the various components of the total price: so much for the airport of departure, so much for overflying countries, so much for the airport of arrival and so much for the airline itself. Very few passengers bothered to check that.

Now with electronic tickets, it has become more difficult to know the details of the fare. You just get an item called "taxes", which does even (unrightfully in my view) encompass the fuel surcharge...

You are right: it is not yet that long ago that we all had to stand in line at Don Muang airport to pay an airport tax in Thai baht. For some passengers it was a dramatic experience because they had spent all their Thai currency, and didn't expect such a last ditch "extortion".

[tolipanebas]

Oh, that still exists at many airports in 3rd world countries, even if there is already an airport tax included in the ticket. It is generally wrapped up as a 'development tax' or a 'departure tax', but one thing is always the same: it needs to be paid in cash on the spot: whether it really develops the airport, or just the house of the guy collecting it, is something left for debate.

Back to reality in Europe: airports are simply infrastructure providers, just as handlers are labour providers, and so just as a passenger is no customer of a particular handling agent, a passenger is no customer of a particular airport either: passengers simply check the different price proposals airlines flying on any given route are making then (and which will often include different gateways, like BRUvsCRL for instance) and they then pick the flight itinary of their choice: all the rest like handlers, airports, parking and ground transport providers merely follow from that first choice really, so it is overly pretentious of airports to think the passengers are their customers and they have the right to collecting the same tax from each and every one of them.

The customers of an airport are the airlines and them alone and so airports should pamper their best customers (i.e. homebase carriers) far more and better than their smaller (often foreign) ones: it's how handlers do it, its how hotels do it, its how plane lessors and plane or engine manufacturers do it, yet somehow it's not how airports do it... it's high time to force them to wake up to reality and set them back to where they really belong: that of the league of second tier service providers. VIE has just been forced to accept the new realities by OS, so its high time BRU is forced to accept it so by SN.

[airazurxtror]

I remember the time (I must be getting old) when many airports were billing the airport taxes separately: the passenger had to fork out the airport tax in the local currency, which was often a major inconvenience, but at least it had the merit of clarity. The passenger would know exactly how cheap or expensive the airport was. In that sense, the passenger was really a customer of the airport.
.

It's still like that at Knock Airport (Ireland) :

A Development Fee of €10 is charged to all departing passengers from Ireland West Airport Knock aged 12 years and over. This is a service charge which the Airport charges for the use of its facilities and as a contribution toward infrastructure developments, including passenger and airline services, ongoing maintenance and operation of this airport. The services include terminal facilities, safety and security, airline services such as air traffic control, navigational aids, runway systems, aircraft parking, and fire services.
All airports charge for their services. Most collect fees through the airlines which you see included as taxes, fees and charges at the time of booking and paying for your airline ticket. Our Development Fee forms part of our overall service charges, and we choose to charge this fee in an open and transparent manner.

First time passengers at Knock usually are surprised and furious - but if they don't pay, they don't fly !

[1V1]

VIE has just been forced to accept the new realities by OS, so its high time BRU is forced to accept it so by SN.

LH wants to ground BruAir's Avro and B737 fleet before the end of the year (OS and SN being their biggest problem) so the airport tax problem will solve itself (much smaller fleet) and BRU can not be forced anything.

[sn-remember]

LH wants to ground BruAir's Avro and B737 fleet before the end of the year (OS and SN being their biggest problem) so the airport tax problem will solve itself (much smaller fleet) and BRU can not be forced anything.

Replaced by what ?????
Who will pay ???

VIE has just been forced to accept the new realities by OS, so its high time BRU is forced to accept it so by SN.

How the other airlines active at VIE reacting to this ?

[1V1]

LH wants to ground BruAir's Avro and B737 fleet before the end of the year (OS and SN being their biggest problem) so the airport tax problem will solve itself (much smaller fleet) and BRU can not be forced anything.

Replaced by what ?????
Who will pay ???

VIE has just been forced to accept the new realities by OS, so its high time BRU is forced to accept it so by SN.

How the other airlines active at VIE reacting to this ?

Replaced by nothing. The plan is to keep the Airbusses and nothing else. But then again it's only a plan.

[sn-remember]

You mean the 5 AVRO-RJ85 and 3 737-300 + 1 737-400 ?
That represents a fleet downsizing of +- 20% ... and a very considerable route restriction...
Hope they know what they're doing ... opening a boulevard to EZY and the like ...

[Bralo20]

All about the Airbusses would mean that 12 Avro RJ100's, 5 Avro RJ85's, 3 733's and 1 734 would be grounded, which is a total of 21 planes on 47... This would mean 44% of the total fleet gone, I doubt this would happen...

[1V1]

All about the Airbusses would mean that 12 Avro RJ100's, 5 Avro RJ85's, 3 733's and 1 734 would be grounded, which is a total of 21 planes on 47... This would mean 44% of the total fleet gone, I doubt this would happen...

This came from my LH sources. Ask Toli I guess they should know by now.

[Inquirer]

Aren't you mistakenly confusing the RJ85 phase out with the complete RJ fleet, 1V1?

That the RJ85 and 737 will be gone by October is known for a long time, but contrary to LH, SN also has the RJ100 and those seem to be staying: their fleet numbers have remained constant at 12, contrary to those of the RJ85 and 737 which have been dropping even since their phase out got announced.

Also, the flights for next winter season are loaded in the booking systems and there's no obvious sign of them halving their medium haul fleet like you say, especially not taking into account some more Q400s and A319/A320s are known to come and join the fleet.

BTW, does anybody know how many more are expected over the coming months, because for us spotters it sure is difficult to follow track of all the incoming planes!

[OO-ITR]

BTW, does anybody know how many more are expected over the coming months, because for us spotters it sure is difficult to follow track of all the incoming planes!

OO-VEX and OO-VEG (both B733) left the fleet this year and another B733 should leave this month. And OO-VEP (B734) exited also from the fleet. Instead we had one A319 (OO-SSW) which arrived and one on it's way (OO-SSN). One A320 (OO-SNC) has been delivered in Brussels and should start flying this month. Another A320 (OO-SND) should arrive later. I have no knowledge of other A/C coming in. Maybe another member knows more...

[airazurxtror]

There is not only Luxemburg or Ireland to delocalize SN to, another possibility is the Netherlands :

http://www.lefigaro.fr/societes/2012/04 ... nomies.php

Air France a fait ses comptes: si la compagnie était basée à Amsterdam, elle économiserait 750 millions d'euros du fait de la différence entre les régimes sociaux et fiscaux entre la France et les Pays-Bas.

Air France has made up its accounts : if the company was based in Amsterdam, it would save 750 million euros due to the difference between the tax and benefit systems between France and the Netherlands.

[regi]

Strange that we see no outflagging to Jersey or Isle of Man.

[fcw]

L' echo confirms: turbulence ahead for BruAir: http://www.lecho.be/nieuws/archief/Brus ... 20airlines

[HighInTheSky]

L' echo confirms: turbulence ahead for BruAir: http://www.lecho.be/nieuws/archief/Brus ... 20airlines

Full article is not available for non-members, can you give a short summary please?

Thanks fcw!

[papysn]

I got it and it's veeerrryyy frightening,they plan for june a major social restructuration with between 400 and 900 job losses on 3500.

they finish the article with the sentence, it will be for june...if it's not too late!!!!

[cnc]

what i don't get is that SN is considering to have their own red caps/flight supervisors rather then using those of flightcare

[1V1]

I see the doomsday preachers are out again? What a surprise...
Surely not because they LH is not likely going to excercise their call option this year?
As inquirer and euroflyer have already said, that is a fairly normal business practice really, especially as there is no urgency involved.

Always found this a strange statement, especially as you must have known about the restructuring plans as from Dec. or Jan.

[tolipanebas]

I see the doomsday preachers are out again? What a surprise...
Surely not because they LH is not likely going to excercise their call option this year?
As inquirer and euroflyer have already said, that is a fairly normal business practice really, especially as there is no urgency involved.

Always found this a strange statement, especially as you must have known about the restructuring plans as from Dec. or Jan.

I don't know what plans you are hinting at there, but the only plan I know of is that of the 737\RJ85 phase out, a plan which is half completed by now. I am sure somebody can give you the exact fleet figures to date, but a huge cut (8 out of 14RJs and 4 out of 8 737s) has apparently slipped largely under the radar, probably because it only resulted in lower frequencies, rather than route closures...

The rest of the remaining RJ85s and 737s is said to be gone by the end of October, after which 6 southern European leisure routes are going to be closed, something which is also shown in the GDS, BTW (see the topic about W2012 news at BRU).

Any other firm plans you know of which you want to share, maybe?

[flightlover]

what i don't get is that SN is considering to have their own red caps/flight supervisors rather then using those of flightcare

In the airport community there are rumors that SN is thinking about ditching Fc. True or not, with the number of flights they have, they should be considering self-handling. In-sourcing the quality control function of red cap seems a good way to start.