Brussels Airlines new service in b.flex : doritos ?

[b-west]

They do. The last rows have slightly reduced legroom while the front few rows have larger legroom than the middle rows.

I think that's just a souvenir from the previous operators, not a deliberate action by SN. After all, the b-flex cabin isn't set to a certain amount of seats, and I don't think SN is gonna change the distance between rows on each flight. So if you're lucky you might even get a larger pitch in b.light if the b.flex load is really low.

[tolipanebas]

I had a reservation for wednesday evening on Easy Jet flight back to Brussels. Due to a problem on railway network (bomb from WWII near railway station in Schönefeld we arrived at the check in exactly 32 min before departure time of the flight. We were of course not alone in this situation because many people were blocked in the trains between Berlin City and Schönefeld. But ... check in for Easy Jet flights closes officially 40 min before departure. So we were around 30 people (yes, you read it correctly, THIRTY !!) to be simply rejected from the flight and rebooked on the same flight 24 hours later ! With of course all the consequences : one more day in Berlin, costs for hotel, food ... and last but not least 60 EUR per person for Easy Jet for modification of the reservation ! Jackpot, guys !!

According to some smartasses around here however, you simply should have booked at least 3 tickets on different flights the day of your departure, checked in for all 3 and then have aimed for the first one (otherwise there's obviously no reduncandy in having booked multiple tickets), thus loosing out on more than half of your useful day in Berlin, only to have some sort of self-invented flexibility in case something does go wrong: definitely great efficiency and excellent time management, notably in all those cases where things do not go wrong...

BTW, you do notice you were quite lucky U2 still had 30 open seats on their very next flight (albeit the day after) and you thus had to stay just 1 extra night in Berlin at your own expenses, do you?
Accomodating 30 pax last minute can be quite a challenge and Easyjet might as well offered you a place on a flight of theirs lightyears away, in which case you'd be really screwed!
Remember LCCs are not going to help you onto another airlines' flight to BRU, nor will they offer you an alternative routing like for instance SXF-GVA-BRU (even if it is on their own airline!), unless you'd book those 2 legs yourself last minute, all while throwing away your SXF-BRU ticket! Oh, and mind you: you might just end up in the same situation in GVA a couple of hours later, as LCCs do not guarantee any connections!

That's exactly what corporate customers want to avoid: they want to know that even if they miss out on a seat on the flight from TXL to BRU (one of the 6 daily), they can always count on a swift rerouting through for instance the hubs of FRA or MUC, thus still making it back to the office the very same day (albeit with delay) and thus not having to worry about any of their meetings the very next day: that's what they are willing to pay a premium for.

That premium is not so much to be seen as an insurance against all the unknown extra costs of some extra hotelnight(s) or a rebooking fee that may be charged to them, but rather as an insurance against a potentially massive time loss (a full working day or more even!) as well as against serious work schedule problems for a whole bunch of people they work with.

And they absolutely want this kind of insurance not because they doubt the punctuality or the reliability of a LCC as such, but because they know very well their own work planning is quite challenging to start the day with and will most likely evolve quite dynamically so to say, meaing they will create their own delays as the day goes by.

That's how it works and what it is all about: those who think frequent flyers pay a premium for the fantastic tuna salad they will get on board have an extremely naive view of network carriers as well as their frequent flyers, just as has been demonstrated here today once again.

[Flanker]

I'm certain that in the same situation the staff of a non LCC company like LH or SN would have tried by all the ways to help people (certainly for 30 people)to catch their flight. The reaction of Easy Jet was all the contrary : you're in the problems, perfect, we won't help you but we will try to suck you the maximum of money ...

I doubt that this would be the case. When they close the check-in at SN, that's it, they won't reopen the flight.
If it was SN, you would have paid much more to rebook.

At CRL, you check-in at home whenever you want, so the only thing is to be at the security on time.
If this would have happened at CRL, they would have let you through.

You should complain about the railway services in Berlin.
I'm sure that even with all that extra cost, Easyjet played out cheaper than SN.
It's also normal that they charged you 60 euro, ultimately that flight left with 30 empty seats.

[Flanker]

That's exactly what corporate customers want to avoid: they want to know that even if they miss out on a seat on the flight from TXL to BRU (one of the 6 daily), they can always count on a swift rerouting through for instance the hubs of FRA or MUC, thus still making it back to the office the very same day (albeit with delay) and thus not having to worry about any of their meetings the very next day: that's what they are willing to pay a premium for.

That premium is not so much to be seen as an insurance against all the unknown extra costs of some extra hotelnight(s) or a rebooking fee that may be charged to them, but rather as an insurance against a potentially massive time loss (a full working day or more even!) as well as against serious work schedule problems for a whole bunch of people they work with.

500 euro extra on every flight, for something that could happen only once in +/-20 flights.
10.000 euro to save half a working day?
No wonder corporations aren't doing well
For that price you can call me, I'll come and get you with a Citation Mustang.

[sean1982]

According to some smartasses around here however

says the biggest smartass on the forum. OMG this one actually made me cry with laughter

[SN539]

BTW, you do notice you were quite lucky U2 still had 30 open seats on their very next flight

I especially notice that U2 was lucky to find 30 "pigeons" to fill their flight the day after

Remember LCCs are not going to help you onto another airlines' flight to BRU, nor will they offer you an alternative routing like for instance SXF-GVA-BRU (even if it is on their own airline!), unless you'd book those 2 legs yourself last minute, all while throwing away your SXF-BRU ticket! Oh, and mind you: you might just end up in the same situation in GVA a couple of hours later, as LCCs do not guarantee any connections! :roll

We were not asking this. Boarding 30 pax half an hour before departure time in a small airport like SXF is not a problem with a minimum of good will and customer mind attitude. I guess the aircraft would have departed with a maximum of 10 minutes delay.

[SN539]

It's also normal that they charged you 60 euro, ultimately that flight left with 30 empty seats.

The logic of your argumentation is a bit difficult to follow but anyway, no problem because ... we finally came back by train to avoid spending a day more in Berlin. So U2 didn't get my 60 EUR (120 EUR with my wife). No chance

Btw, a bit of topic, but travelling with Deutsche Bahn on ICE trains is a real pleasure !

[SN539]

I doubt that this would be the case. When they close the check-in at SN, that's it, they won't reopen the flight.

They won't close the check in if 30 pax are missing and they know the train station is closed for a bomb alert. So simple ...

[tolipanebas]

If it was SN, you would have paid much more to rebook

Again, a statement without any back up and as so often factually wrong too.
FWIW, there are no rebooking fees for b.flex ticket holders; b.light ticket holders are rebooked at 60 euro, so exactly the same as at U2. Your statement is thus wrong in both cases, well done!

It's also normal that they charged you 60 euro, ultimately that flight left with 30 empty seats.

But the next one left with 30 pax more than expected, so over the 2 flights combined, this works out as having exactly zero impact (*) other than a positive one on revenues, like SN539 rightfully noticed.
Are you suddenly discovering that something as immaterial as flexibility can indeed be a commodity in itself and thus have a value too, now?

(*) in fact, in theory it even has a positive effect for the airline, as for the first flight, the assumed presence of the 30 pax as from the monent of their booking has been taken into consideration for the price setting of all other tickets which have thus all needlessly been sold more expensive than otherwise would have been the case, whereas for the second flight that very next day, the addition of those same 30 pax will also have had a positive effect on the price of any last minute tickets that might have been sold still.

500 euro extra on every flight, for something that could happen only once in +/-20 flights.

Maybe, just maybe it happens far more than you seem to think, not because of rather rare external factors like the weather or the plane breaking down, but because of internal factors linked to the pax themselves, like their meetings extending, additional telco's being squeezed in or last minute itinary changes even to make certain deadlines???
Since you have no way of judging this, your above statement is again nothing but an assumption, which as usual with you is factually wrong for some people as was clearly demonstrated by eurojet, inquirer, euroflyer and other who all seem to think b.flex is good value for money although I know that in your eyes, everybody not agreeing with you is automatically a complete and utter moron and all right reasons people may bring to the table in support of their opinion are completely irrelevant.

[Flanker]

If it was SN, you would have paid much more to rebook

Again, a statement without any back up and as so often factually wrong too.
FWIW, there are no rebooking fees for b.flex ticket holders; b.light ticket holders are rebooked at 60 euro, so exactly the same as at U2. Your statement is thus wrong in both cases, well done!

You also have to pay the fare difference for the last minute ticket and at SN they are expensive.

I doubt that this would be the case. When they close the check-in at SN, that's it, they won't reopen the flight.


They won't close the check in if 30 pax are missing and they know the train station is closed for a bomb alert. So simple ...

So according to you, the other 130 pax, some who might be connecting onto other flights or trains, or need to be somewhere, should experience an undefined delay? Oups... forgot about them

The logic of your argumentation is a bit difficult to follow but anyway, no problem because ... we finally came back by train to avoid spending a day more in Berlin. So U2 didn't get my 60 EUR (120 EUR with my wife). No chance

Airlines sell tickets on the day before more often than you think.
Why didn't you take a cab to the airport in the first place? Bad planning? Low-cost mentality
Why didn't you buy a last-minute B.flex on SN if you say they are worth it? Too expensive? It would have costed the same if you had missed their flight and rebooked
The train from Berlin?

[tolipanebas]

You also have to pay the fare difference for the last minute ticket and at SN they are expensive.

That depends on whether the next flight is peak or off peak.

Besides, when U2 has only flexi fares left, they'll also charge you the fare difference on top of the 60 euro rebooking fee: their revenue management isn't stupid either, as it could otherwise turn out to be cheaper to pretend to have missed a certain flight you don't like to take in the first place than it is to buy the flexi ticket for the flight of your choice right away!

Why didn't you buy a last-minute B.flex on SN if you say they are worth it?

Because there's not much use in looking into an alternative flight from TXL, if you've just missed the late evening flight from SXF maybe?

[SN539]

So according to you, the other 130 pax, some who might be connecting onto other flights or trains, or need to be somewhere, should experience an undefined delay? Oups... forgot about them

As explained above, we speak about 10 minutes delay maximum. I doubt other pax even remarked it ...

Why didn't you take a cab to the airport in the first place

Because train is normally more reliable than taxi (no traffic jams)

Low-cost mentality

You are becoming a bit impolite , so have a good night ...

[Flanker]

Because there's not much use in looking into an alternative flight from TXL, if you've just missed the late evening flight from SXF maybe?

What difference would it have made if he had booked the last flight with SN on b.flex, then missed it? Expensive rebooking to the highest fare class which is easily 200-300 more, hotel. Earlier departure next day is the only thing that comes to mind?

If it was the last flight, would SN have waited despite the risk that the other pax who were on time woud lose the last train/bus connections in BRU? So SN really don't care about non-corporate pax, do they?

We were not asking this. Boarding 30 pax half an hour before departure time in a small airport like SXF is not a problem with a minimum of good will and customer mind attitude. I guess the aircraft would have departed with a maximum of 10 minutes delay.

You said yourself that you arrived at check-in 32 minutes before departure time. By the time you were all checked-in and your luggage accepted and loaded, been through security and boarded, the paperwork redone and a new departure ATFM slot acquired from CFMU, it could easily be a 30-40 minute delay.


I've seen Ryanair accept 2 customers who showed up at the gate 10 minutes past departure time just as their luggage was found and unloaded.

[tolipanebas]

What difference would it have made if he had booked the last flight with SN on b.flex, then missed it?

Depending the specifics of the individual case, a rerouting through FRA may have been an additional and ultimate option available.

I agree this is not possible for every passenger, but it most definitely can be an additional option to corporate clients. Cases like this are textbook examples where alliances proof their value as they are allowing to combine the networks of their members pretty much as a sort of railway system which will keep you moving on track towards your final destination, no matter what may happen en route.

But anyway, all this is just water under the bridge really, since SN539 decided to take the real railway system home!

[Flanker]

Depending the specifics of the individual case, a rerouting through FRA may have been an additional and ultimate option available.

I agree this is not possible for every passenger, but it most definitely can be an additional option to corporate clients. Cases like this are textbook examples where alliances proof their value as they are allowing to combine the networks of their members pretty much as a sort of railway system which will keep you moving on track towards your final destination, no matter what may happen en route.

HUMMM

wrote:
Because there's not much use in looking into an alternative flight from TXL, if you've just missed the late evening flight from SXF maybe?

[cnc]

So according to you, the other 130 pax, some who might be connecting onto other flights or trains, or need to be somewhere, should experience an undefined delay? Oups... forgot about them

this is why there is communication between airlines/handlers at different airports, why after every flight is closed in DCS an LDM, PSM, PTM etc is send, why pilots contact the handling company via freq...
full service carriers have multiple options to fix such problems unlike most LCC's

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

Nice topic about a bag of doritos...
In bFlex a bag of doritos is making fun about your public, at least SN should gave some options,maybe a buono ?
Taking care of these pax. should at least be a bit better IMHO..
but indeed they're not paying that much of money because the food but for the flexibility...

If you miss the plane because of traffic,and the gate closes .. maybe it's just good to know you can have a travel insurance for this for about half the price of a bFlex ticket and will help you also with this for a whole year just like I did.. and than you can even fly bLight without worries..

Like already said more than thousand times .. if pay only 6 euros for a flight don't expect the same treathment by LCC than SN likes... you get what you pay for..

My opinion and experience is that the bLight and bFlex and bBusinness are good products ( altough I never flown Business at SN (yet ) .. but I really think that they better raise bLight fares with 2,5 euros and give these pax also a free drink and a bag of doritos or other food like all pax in bFlex and just keep the flexibility for the bFlex pax.. just like LH BTW..

With bLight they really can steal pax from LCC.. but they just have to promote in harder/better.. free luggage ! , fight FR there were it hurts...

For daytravellers like some on this forum ( incl. me sometimes ), it isn't worth for SN trying to getting these, these are SN loss makers.. ( 24 euro's to BGY return ? or STN ..? ... or GVA ?... )
But the citytrippers with luggage are worth fighting for.. these fill their low-hours planes, give them publicity and who knows wwhich they will use next time..

CX-B

[earthman]

I don't fly LCCs due to crappy scheduling and due to the fact that you're usually completely screwed if something goes wrong, say, your flight gets cancelled etc.

[airazurxtror]

With bLight they really can steal pax from LCC.. but they just have to promote in harder/better.. free luggage ! , fight FR there were it hurts...

For daytravellers like some on this forum ( incl. me sometimes ), it isn't worth for SN trying to getting these, these are SN loss makers.. ( 24 euro's to BGY return ? or STN ..? ... or GVA ?... )

CX-B

As you say, Doritos Airlines sure could steal pax from Ryanair.
First, they have the big advantage of flying from Brussels, easy access, a large city with a big tank of customers who would prefer not to drive 60 km to Charleroi.
But instead of promoting 69 or 99 euros return flights with a lot of conditions like a minimum stay, week-end, and so on - they should offer individual flights at a fixed price so that the traveller can arrange his trip as he wants : Vueling, Germanwings, easyJet do it from BRU, why not SN in Blight ?
And then make the website a bit more easy to use : see Vueling or easyJet, where you can look at once to the fares of three weeks or even a full month.

[OO-ITR]

My opinion and experience is that the bLight and bFlex and bBusinness are good products ( altough I never flown Business at SN (yet ) .. but I really think that they better raise bLight fares with 2,5 euros and give these pax also a free drink and a bag of doritos or other food like all pax in bFlex and just keep the flexibility for the bFlex pax.. just like LH BTW..

I agree but what will you do with the flights during lunch and dinner hours...There the pax receive a meal.

With bLight they really can steal pax from LCC.. but they just have to promote in harder/better.. free luggage ! , fight FR there were it hurts...

For daytravellers like some on this forum ( incl. me sometimes ), it isn't worth for SN trying to getting these, these are SN loss makers.. ( 24 euro's to BGY return ? or STN ..? ... or GVA ?... )
But the citytrippers with luggage are worth fighting for.. these fill their low-hours planes, give them publicity and who knows wwhich they will use next time..
CX-B

oh and some members on here claim that pax travel WITHOUT luggage

And then make the website a bit more easy to use : see Vueling or easyJet, where you can look at once to the fares of three weeks or even a full month.

Have you been looking at SN's website??? OMG! You will burn in hell WHOEHAHAHAHAAA
To punish you, MOL will make you work a crazy work roster, pay you minimum, make you pay for your training and uniform, base you somewhere that is not according to your preferences...uhm...wait...lol