Brussels Airlines new service in b.flex : doritos ?

[cnc]

destroyed. such food doesn't stay good for long anyway. i remember we had a plane AOG once for 2 days on an airport we don't serve (diversion) and the catering remained on board and oh boy what a smell!

[andorra-airport]

Anyone here knows if it gets destroyed (FAVV-wise), so nothing for Poverello or similar?

On short haul flights it is often kept on board for the next leg, as a spare. Long haul is thrown away. I remember even the sealed juice packages.

[airazurxtror]

And obviously, Brussels Airlines care only for the "corporate" pax.

could you name 1 airline that is flying to serve the people rather then fill the pockets of the shareholders?

Glad to know that Brussels Airlines fill the pockets of its shareholders.

[Shanti]

What will be next for B flex paying passengers?
Unbelievable!
Jetairfly can offer a decent light meal for 9 EUR
for charter passengers!

[cnc]

Jetairfly can offer a decent light meal for 9 EUR
for charter passengers!

only if they book well on time. JAF doesn't take a single meal more then they have to on each flight.

Glad to know that Brussels Airlines fill the pockets of its shareholders.

how naive of you to think otherwise

[eurojet]

OK, as a short-haul European business traveller (over 60-80 return flights a year intra-European, most on KLM/AF and LH-Group (Luxair, LH proper, SR, OS), and 90% in Y-class), I can only confirm that me and my colleagues do not give a slightest importance to "meals" in economy Y. Fly with us during a typical flight with a lot of business related travellers, and over 50% will just refuse any economy class meal that is offered. Heck, if I think of it, even a lot of us will not take alcohol. What counts for us on those sectors, and what makes us pay high fares is schedule, schedule, schedule and again schedule. I think it is wise from the LH-Group to take this catering position, and the constant success and preference of the LH-group (again, schedule, schedule, schedule, punctuality and a wide range of good hubs, FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE) amongst the business travelling community show they don't really care about receiving a "hot pizza sandwhich" (which only makes you drop melted cheese on your suit) at 15.00 PM. I do understand the occassional leasure traveller will give high importance to this, but hey, they pay EUR 99 for a LUX-MUC-BUD, we pay EUR 599, so LH rather thinks about us, not them.

Long-haul is a different story, but even there the minds are changing. We eagerly look at new products like Economy Plus, etc ... For those who do not realise, we are living in a crisis boys, both for the airlines (I am very curious to see who will be the next Malev/Spanair) AND their clients.

[tolipanebas]

SN & co, need to realize that they're not a public transportation company but a service company. As a service company, they have to understand what people want.

People flying litterally daily with LH group carriers want the best possible flight schedule they can get, with the shortest connecting times, full ticket flexibility, remote check in options, security fast tracks, lounge access (in case of delays) and generous carry on allowances so as to make their same day return trips within Europe as swift and as hastle free as possible: on a very short flight at 1500PM, they couldn't care less about the typical pasta or chicken dish or the very same mayo sandwich they'd be served for the 12th time this month already.
FWIW, cabin crew can often single out the real frequent flyers from those who think they've seen it all because they have already flown twice this year and we're just February ( ) by the simple fact real frequent travellers mostly forgo their meals and prefer to work on their laptop instead. The rate of service refusal is known to be higher the higher the FFP status, believe it or not! So it really comes as no surprise to me when Euroflyer said he didn't take any of the offered snacks on his TXL-BRU recently: in fact that's a fairly normal attitude for a M&M Senator (and higher), especially on short haul....

In this perspective, it is interesting to note the same meal concept is in use for more than a year at LH/LX and has been introduced by OS as well recently: despite this LX got voted best airline in western Europe last year even... with LH second... and OS third!
http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Award ... europe.htm
The reaon is fairly simple: they offer a great network in Europe, which good schedules and a reliable travel experience throughout the journey, including maximum ticket flexibility, rebooking and rerouting options.
THAT what's it all about, boys: you can pretty much forget about the great salad or the tasty pasta dish at 1500PM!

OK, if you decide to offer a snack between 2 and 4, go for a shortcake or two picks from a fruit basket.

I personally think there should be a difference between AM and PM snacks, so day trippers don't get the same choice of snacks twice: other than that, if you get something sweet and something salty, that is a typical snack choice for me?

Much better than flying the same day and being useless and tired.

Remember we're talking shorthaul here, style GVA, MXP, TXL, CPH or BHX for instance!
Are you that tired after a little flight of just 75 minutes? Better go and see your GP in that case....
FWIW, about 1/3rd of the passengers on that kind of routes return the very same day even: you can forget about putting them up in a hotel with a relaxing spa for 2 days at the expenses of their company!

Because you don't usually travel and pay a 700 euro ticket to go sell a few boxes of sponges to a retailer in Italy...

You'd be amazed with what type of assignments international companies send their project managers over to their sites for these days, believe me!
In the past, Euroflyer has already explained to you in depth the corporate travel policies of basically all multinationals: its clear you're constantly thinking from a SME perspective (SME = KMO(nl)/PME(fr)), which is really not what network carriers thrive on: think Volvo, think P&G, think Siemens, think KPMG, think Bekaert etc... they seem to be sending streams of 'project managers' to all of their sites for what can't be much more than a 1 hour meeting really, for as long as it can be done cost efficiently: meaning it shoudn't take more time than needed and no useless frills are to be paid for: a ticket fare of 400 euro in Y is not a game stopper for them, but a 2 day layover in a hotel or the idea they'd be paying for real business class on board comfort for something as silly as a BRU-HAM definitely will be!

[tolipanebas]

What counts for us on those sectors, and what makes us pay high fares is schedule, schedule, schedule and again schedule. I think it is wise from the LH-Group to take this catering position, and the constant success and preference of the LH-group (again, schedule, schedule, schedule, punctuality and a wide range of good hubs, FRA, MUC, ZRH, VIE) amongst the business travelling community show they don't really care about receiving a "hot pizza sandwhich" (which only makes you drop melted cheese on your suit) at 15.00 PM.

That's so spot on, eurojet!

I don't mean the drop of molten cheese of course, but the description of the mentality of frequent flyer these days.

Those who still think a glass of champagne, a great pasta dish or a real business class seat can lure even a single corporate passenger into flying with them, are dead wrong and so stuck in the 1990s still....

[eurojet]

We indeed check schedules in all details, all to avoid additional hotel nights. A short-notice hotel night in a mayor European business city (AMS, London, ZRH, Milan) sets you back at easily EUR 300 per night during the week (and no, we are not talking about Hyatt or Four Seasons here, we talk about NH hotels, Novotels/Sofitels, Marriotts, anything higher than that is out of reach in most of corporate travel policies), so we place high importance on day-returns, and yes, we fly out to Warswa, Prague, Madrid on day-return for an one hour meeting which we consider to be deal-making.

FYI, corporate travel policies are often much more stricter on hotel choices than flight choices. In hotel choices, an important factor is security as well, travel policies will be flexible if we consider an hotel to be in an inconvenient or dangerous area.

Therefore, we mostly book the highest Y-class fare, since it allows us to take a flight earlier/later whenever it suits us. Most of us have permanent lounge access thanks to our status, not because of the booking class, and if we sit in C on short-haul European, it is because we have been upgraded, or because we are connecting to a long-haul in C.

I advice everyone to read through the travel policy of a large corporate, you will see the philosophy is a bit different from your bi-annual city trip with your better half you have been preparing for ages.

By the way, for my private intra-European travel, I am a big Ryanair fan. Airmiles are being spent on either upgrades or gifts from he M&M shop, never on tickets, where taxes don't make it worth to spend your miles, and this is common amongst my colleagues

[tolipanebas]

We indeed check schedules in all details, all to avoid additional hotel nights. A short-notice hotel night in a mayor European business city (AMS, London, ZRH, Milan) sets you back at easily EUR 300 per night during the week (and no, we are not talking about Hyatt or Four Seasons here, we talk about NH hotels, Novotels/Sofitels, Marriotts, anything higher than that is out of reach in most of corporate travel policies), so we place high importance on day-returns, and yes, we fly out to Warswa, Prague, Madrid on day-return for an one hour meeting which we consider to be deal-making.

FYI, corporate travel policies are often much more stricter on hotel choices than flight choices. In hotel choices, an important factor is security as well, travel policies will be flexible if we consider an hotel to be in an inconvenient or dangerous area.

Therefore, we mostly book the highest Y-class fare, since it allows us to take a flight earlier/later whenever it suits us. Most of us have permanent lounge access thanks to our status, not because of the booking class, and if we sit in C on short-haul European, it is because we have been upgraded, or because we are connecting to a long-haul in C.

I advice everyone to read through the travel policy of a large corporate, you will see the philosophy is a bit different from your bi-annual city trip with your better half you have been preparing for ages.

You've basically nailed it and as you say, it's basically the same everywhere these days.

From some of the comments above, it's crystal clear some have no clue as to what travel policies are all about these days and are simply assuming corporate customers to be top executives flying around to complete multi-million dollar deals and thus expect only the very best: a plane full of DSK's so to say!

Reality is 95% of corporate pax are middle management type, coming over for just half a day or so in order to review with the local implementation team at some site a rather conceptual back office IT project he has been put in charge of as lead project manager and he's always expected back at HQ the very same day still to report on the progress made to his project sponsor...

FWIW, for the real DSK types, there's still the real C class product so they can get flushed with champagne the moment they get on board, eat their salmon based starter from porselain dishes and enjoy what is most certainly a highly intellectual conversation with a 35 years younger and stunningly beautiful business accompagnion and no this is not some joke I am cracking: this is a fairly typical view on a DME flight for instance!

[airazurxtror]

By the way, for my private intra-European travel, I am a big Ryanair fan.

My opinion exactly.
Brussels Airlines for the corporate fat cats.
Ryanair for the normal people.
And thus, why protest that much against Ryanair coming at BRU ?
Ryanair won't take the SN custom, and the Ryanair Brusseleers customers won't have to pollute for 120 km return to Charleroi. Win-win !

[tolipanebas]

By the way, for my private intra-European travel, I am a big Ryanair fan.

My opinion exactly.
Brussels Airlines for the corporate fat cats.
Ryanair for the normal people.
And thus, why protest that much against Ryanair coming at BRU ?
Ryanair won't take the SN custom, and the Ryanair Brusseleers customers won't have to pollute for 120 km return to Charleroi. Win-win !

There are ample LCCs at BRU: see for instance U2.
They offer a far superior product than FR and often at very competitive prices, I must say.
FR however wants to be positively discriminated by getting more favorable rates than anybody else!
Why should BRU lower its price for FR? Surely not to fill the pockets of FR's shareholders, because you're obviously so much against such profit driven attitude, seeing your previous post here, are you?
Besides, you're completely off topic, unless you'd want to comment on the great snacks FR is offering for free onboard?

Let's keep FR where it belongs, serving some dirt strip miles from where 'normal people' would want to go to...

[eurojet]

Corporate travellers of medium to large-sized companies don't use LCCs a la Ryanair, not for the lack of all fancy tricks or lack of image, but just because they don't fly where we want them to fly at the time we want them to fly. Additionally, even if they would work on this, price-wise they start to lose out as well. On a couple of routes where they fly where we want them to fly on moments that suit us, the price differene between Ryanair and a traditional carrier is minimum. "Image", "class" " for the normal or for the fat cats" is for us not a criterium for us at all. If Ryanair starts to fly from Findel with day-returns to Warsaw-Chopin at correct fares with some ticketing flexibility, I'd take them in an instant, and give a rat's ass about their yellow and blue, but they don't enter that segment since they cannot earn money in it. Just get that "normal people vs fat cats" out of your head, it does not match reality.

Flying for us is a commodity/utility, with "value for money" as red-line through the policy. "Value for money" is something completely different than "the lowest price".

[sean1982]

Let's keep FR where it belongs, serving some dirt strip miles from where 'normal people' would want to go to...

So you find that the 5 901 007 pax that travelled last year through CRL airport abnormal? Nice to see the typical view of Brussels Airlines towards passengers.

FOr the price you pay in b.flex, you get 6 different ryanair tickets which also makes you flexible and 5 sandwiches on baord every flight if you want.

[airazurxtror]

Corporate travellers of medium to large-sized companies don't use LCCs a la Ryanair.

Exactly.
The corporate travellers use Brussels Airlines which is geared just for them; the few odd travellers who are not corporated take "LCC à la Ryanair".
Thus why not accept Ryanair at BRU, even with a rebate, if FR brings one or two million "uncorporated" passengers per year ?

[eurojet]

Another thing about catering on planes, and to put things in perspective: I am 36, and have been a corporate traveller since I am 24, with weekly (multiple flights). When it comes to catering, I have seen with myself a change over the years (wisdom comes with age, I guess):

1) While in the early years, I would always ask for alcohol when offered, over the last years the only thing I ask for is .. a glass of water, and two if possible... When I fly with colleagues, I see exactly the same. Alcohol on a plane is just not good for any performance you need to do later (being it a meeting or sleeping well upon arrival). I like the idea that they have it, but do we need it?

2) Food: a lot of bread and pasta based catering these days: all of our guys/girls try to take care of life-style and have a constant fight against extra kilo's, undersigned included. We eat out a lot in restaurants and hotels, so why will I bother with a calorie-bomb on a plane? This explains the success of business lounges with good catering or à la carte: food on the ground is much better/healthier than food up in the air

3) Ever been in business class on a long-haul? Whenever the seatbelt sign is off, you see at least over 50% over passengers do one thing; put the seat in sleeping position and SLEEP. We usually skip most of the food (too heavy in any case) or will go to light/fast served options when possible

4) Another nice one: IFE: sit in C-class long-haul, and 70% of the IFE's is either shut (to avoid light intrusion that keep you from sleeping) or just on the airshow. Besides, who needs IFE with crap movies if you have an IPad/Tablet with everything YOU like


Airliners are following this behaviour closely. Last month I was at FRA and a LH girl making a survey asked me a couple of questions, and she asked me what I wanted to see changed in Y-class for my type of travel .. It took me a long-time to come up with an answer which was "nothing really", since anything else I would ask would only increase the cost to LH, so would be passed on directly to us.

Some flight attendants will confirm, but I think we are about the easiest passengers you can have ... (well, as long as it is not on a Geneva or Tel Aviv-bound flight ..). But when I am with Madame, off course I will ask for a re-fill and maximise it to the max, let's be honest.

As to Ryanair on Zaventem, why not but why do they need a special favour? Can't they make money with the fares BRU charges all the rest?

[sean1982]

I'm sure they can, If they make money at MAD they would certainly make money in BRU

[tolipanebas]

So you find that the 5 901 007 pax that travelled last year through CRL airport abnormal? Nice to see the typical view of Brussels Airlines towards passengers.

Did I mention CRL? It is you who alligns the FR base of CRL with some of the southern European dirtstrips FR serves on a very thin frequency....

For the price you pay in b.flex, you get 6 different ryanair tickets which also makes you flexible and 5 sandwiches on baord every flight if you want.

Yep, and just read how much value for money corporate customers feel that is...
When you're traveling on time paid by your customer/employer, value for money is something completely different than when you're traveling in your own free time: a concept FR still needs to discover... now U2 on the other hand...

Why not accept Ryanair at BRU, even with a rebate, if FR brings one or two million "uncorporated" passengers per year?

Stop beating a dead horse, will you?
FR can come to BRU if they pay the same as anybody else, yet they'd want rebates,so I ask you: what for?
For the profit of their shareholders? If there's indeed an open market to fill, U2 will fill it at rates BRU makes good money from, which will benefit their own shareholders: BRU certainly needn't fill the pockets of others.
For the jobs they'll allegedly bring? Next year there will be 300,000 FR pax less at EDI and not a single job will be lost: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-17101488

Last month I was at FRA and a LH girl making a survey asked me a couple of questions, and she asked me what I wanted to see changed in Y-class for my type of travel .. It took me a long-time to come up with an answer which was "nothing really"

Which is why LH is so good at what they're doing: they are spot on, and everything works like a clock with them.

As to Ryanair on Zaventem, why not but why do they need a special favour? Can't they make money with the fares BRU charges all the rest?

U2 would finish them off in a second, which is why they'd rather stay with their market niche, i.e. serving places run by politicians who buy themselves the image of dynamic governance by massively sponsoring inherently unprofitable FR routes, thus depriving their citizens of much more intelligent long term investments for the sake of something as volatile as the odd FR route to STN, CRL or HHN.

[sean1982]

U2 would finish them off in a second, which is why they'd rather stay with their market niche, i.e. serving places run by politicians who buy themselves the image of dynamic governance by massively sponsoring inherently unprofitable FR routes, thus depriving their citizens of much more intelligent long term investments for the sake of something as volatile as the odd FR route to STN, CRL or HHN.

You think so? Like that time U2 moved into Dublin and then retreated again after a few months? I also recall a thread here on the forums last summer about EZY and their notorious delays and cancellations at BRU airport without any decent explanation? FR's cost base is much lower then U2's, so if they get the same deal at BRU as U2, they would be able to undercut their price significantly

[airazurxtror]

When you're traveling on time paid by your customer/employer, value for money is something completely different than when you're traveling in your own free time:

And I'll add :
When you are traveling on tickets paid by your customer/employer, value for money is something completely different than when you are traveling on your own spent money.
Which is why corporate travellers make the SN accountants most happy with huge annual profits, and uncorporated travellers make the FR accountants desperate with huge annual losses (or is it the other way round ?) .

If you don't mind, I consider that going to Manchester or Marseille and return for a grand total of 24 euros each is good value for money (even if I don't get Doritos into the bargain).