Lufthansa plans to sell BMI

[sn26567]

Lufthansa isn't interested in TAP (yet?). This was only the suggestion of a Portuguese economist to help his country out of its financial problems. And Lufthansa doesn't need a second subsidiary specialised in African destinations...

[cnc]

Lufthansa isn't interested in TAP (yet?). This was only the suggestion of a Portuguese economist to help his country out of its financial problems. And Lufthansa doesn't need a second subsidiary specialised in African destinations...

what about the south american/brasil market? and not to mention the possible value of LIS as star alliance/LH hub and what would happen if BA/IB gets TAP?

[fretn]

I'm quite sure the European Commission would never allow this, it would create a monopoly from the Iberian peninsula to South America.

[OO-ITR]

The name of LH comes up, every time there is a takeover rumour, whether it is TAP, LOT or SAS...

[sn26567]

Lufthansa isn't interested in TAP (yet?). This was only the suggestion of a Portuguese economist to help his country out of its financial problems.

Portuguese prime minister urges Lufthansa to consider TAP

Portuguese prime minister Pedro Passos Coelho has urged aviation giant Lufthansa to consider purchasing TAP Portugal.

The award winning flag-carrier is mooted for privatisation as the Iberian country continues to battle spiraling budget deficits.

TAP is considered a prize assets, having been recognised by the World Travel Awards as the World’s Leading Airline to South America in 2010.

http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/ ... sider-tap/

[Air Key West]

Wouldn't the best option be to sell BMI without the LHR slots and rent out these slots if the LH Group doesn't need them ?
Of course, the value of the airline will be much less without these slots, but I coud imagine that BA, Virgin Atlantic and perhaps even AF-KL would still be interested.
On the other hand, it would be a pity to let go of precious LHR slots. Their rent would bring in a lot of money and LH could still get them back if ever they needed them.
With the money of the BMI sale, LH would have money readily available to (fully) acquire other more interesting airlines (imho), like SN or TAP.

Should there be no candidate to buy BMI without the LHR slots, perhaps LH could consider setting up a small TATL hub at MAN. The UK-US market is highly competitive, but I'm being told that it is still lucrative.

[cathay belgium]

Mm..

Or what about gettting rid of the old B733 of BMI Baby and use the full newer capacity of A319/A320
to reform BMIBaby, getting these in direct competition with FR and FlyBe and Jet2 .
Drop BMI, form a UK domestic and UK Holiday LCC to compete Jet2 and bring the smaller aircraft to these
LH companies which can use them , SN ?
Then let LH see what they can arrange with the LHR slots... or form a wide web of connections with
LHR to FRA/MUC/BRU.. and Swiss ..making the LHR slots feeder connections for *A hubs to steal away pax of OneWorld..

As TAP is already *A I don't think LH won't let TAP go to another alliance even if this would mean they must buy them..
with IB on the other side ( and KLM-AZ-AF on other side ), a loss of TAP would mean a letting go for the South American connections... ,outside LH very litlle own connections to this part of the world..

Just a tought..
But BMI is doomed in any case..

CX-B

[Air Key West]

LH is not into the LCC business. So, developping BMIBaby to compete with FR, EZY and the like is highly unlikely.
If LH keeps BMI, I'd rather see them set up a small hub for flights to important secondary airports in the US, like San Diego, San Jose (Ca), Phoenix, Detroit or Las Vegas which are not served by LH (as far as I know).
Of course, it would even be nicer for us, here in Belgium, if LH made SN operate these flights out of BRU which would be the most northwestern airport (= closest to the US) and a perfect hub for TATL flights not served by other LH Group airlines (but I must be dreaming.....).

[cathay belgium]

Mm..

LH isn't really not into LCC... Germanwings ?
OK, lowcost isn't really so LH but I really think BMI Baby could be profitable,so why getting rid of this,
keeping it IN with a good management.. why not ? ( Even merge it with Germanwings..to create a bigger view )

With only 2 A330 in the fleet I don't see them as a small hub for TATL flights to small airports,
or with narrow body equipment ?
Maybe this role can indeed be played (with future expansion plans ) with SN, but Detroit is very competing with KLM/Delta at AMS,
San Diego-Phoenix with BA at LHR and Las Vegas was already tried and forgotten with Citybird..
So maybe yes,but I won't focus on these...

So I guess .. quit BMI,but then... not many options for the moment ?

CX-B

[Air Key West]

It's not because another or other airlines fly already to a given city that you can no longer consider flying there yourself. LH flies to Dallas (AA territory) and to Atlanta (DL territory) for instance.
But I agree with you that the best option is probably to sell BMI, but, as I mentioned before, while keeping the LHR slots and renting them out as long as you don't need them yourself or as long as you can afford to keep them.

[cathay belgium]

Offcourse is flying to places where others are also on the market possible,
but it will be harder to get something starting up..
Instead of renting slots it's more profitable to use them yourselves, if others can make money out of it,
why not yourself in this case.. renting = loosing as you will give profitable routings away..
You have the slots and the aircraft.. work something out I would say..
Just tought about LH Italia and KLM UK, but both didn't work out ..
This issue needs some smarter management people to work on ..
CX-B

[sn26567]

Interesting article in anna.aero, which speculates obn who could buy bmi and comes up with two possible suitors (Virgin Atlantic and Qatar Airways), none of which has exactly the right fit.

http://www.anna.aero/2011/09/08/lufthan ... -results/#

[KLC]

What do you mean: KLM UK was not a success?

KLM UK still exists and was, operationally, integrated in KLM Cityhopper. We fly several times a day to LHR, Cardiff, Bristol, Liverpool, Newcastle, Durham Tees Valley, Norwich, Humberside and Leeds Bradford. Besides that we operate flights for KLM to Edinburg, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Birmingham and Manchester. KLM UK still employs about 200 British Cabin Crew, based in the UK and many captains as well. I believe the take over of Air UK was a big success and there is no other (continental) airline that offers so many destinations in the UK ... besides that, passengers prefer Schiphol to transfer, instead of LHR. Can't blame them.

So just stick to Lufthansa Italia being "less succesfull"...

[cathay belgium]

Okay KLC,

I just assumed they stopped/dissappered, as I don't saw the birds with notice KLM UK anymore..
So there are still KLM Cityhopper - planes based in the UK ? ( Fokker 70 - Emb190? )
I tought all KLC were based at AMS.. Which are the KLC bases in the UK ? ( sure NOT BHX )
So KLC has also connections from the UK to other desti's besides AMS ?
I know KLM has a quite good UK-connection ( and fares), that's the reason I'll fly them to BHX next year..
Only pity that leaving from BRU doubles the fare haha,if only SN could lower their fares a bit..mm..
Still it's all one KLM to me..

CX-B

[sn26567]

I just assumed they stopped/dissappered, as I don't saw the birds with notice KLM UK anymore..
So there are still KLM Cityhopper - planes based in the UK ? ( Fokker 70 - Emb190? )
I tought all KLC were based at AMS.. Which are the KLC bases in the UK ? ( sure NOT BHX )
So KLC has also connections from the UK to other desti's besides AMS ?
I know KLM has a quite good UK-connection ( and fares), that's the reason I'll fly them to BHX next year..
Only pity that leaving from BRU doubles the fare haha,if only SN could lower their fares a bit..mm..
Still it's all one KLM to me..

It's supposed to be one big KLM, so that's good.
- All planes are indeed Amsterdam based (they all have a PH-... marking).
- We only fly between AMS and the UK, no other destinations are served.
- The still existing bases are Edinburg, Norwich, Humberside and Leeds Bradford. In BHX, MAN, NCL, BRS and GLA there is still crew who deadhead to/from AMS.
I think they did a brilliant thing by taking over Air UK, as about 40% of the passengers that fly with KLC are British (at least, that was the percentage 5 years ago - don't know what it is now). If I'm right, Lufthansa has only about 6 UK destinations (however, I'm not an expert - could be wrong on this). So ... big market for us!

[cathay belgium]

Hi KLC,

Indeed it looks great for KLC to integrate AIR UK but there are a few remarks;
NO intern regional flights in the UK itself is quite a difference from AIR UK no ?
As I see KLC took over all routings to AMS and left the internal UK routes to ?? ( Flybe? )
Great thing to see for KLM but not what I had in mind as a 'base' ..
When you mentionned as ex. Edinburgh I expect more desti's from Edinburgh then only AMS..
So KLC took over all the Dutch connections no?
That's great for KL, but not so good for British people as they saw some domestic connections dissappear
or monopolised no?
I expect also Jet2 is hard competition on the Leeds route as they fly bigger equipment than KLC no?

As I read your reply here,there are still some nice opportunities for LH/*A/BMI to get into competition with KLC..
If LH has only 6 cities served in the UK, I don't see why AMS will be the hub for the UK, maybe they can introduce a whole new product with BMI in this case..
In this point of view BMI has already a nice AMS route to BHX with BMI Baby, so they won't start from zero..
as I mentioned already before


Nice to see that competitors can give valuable info for a new fighting market haha..
Maybe, next time, I can fly BMI (again) to BHX ... ( as in the good old days out of BRU with Fokker 70/100's )..

CX-B

[KLC]

I see your point ... No domestic flights anymore like in the Air UK days. I'm guessing that, for KL, it's only interesting to get passengers to AMS and from there on have them transfer on the Euro / Intercontinental network.
As far as domestic flights are concerned, I'm guessing it's too hard to compete with BA, BMI, Flybe, Easyjet, ...
I'm sure if Amstelveen saw a reasonable market for domestic UK flights, they would definitely exploit it as well. As all companies would.

As we have a base in LBA, I rarely fly there ... so, don't actually know how the yields are on this route. Interesting questions, though! Hope to find out more about this.

[fcw]

According The Telegraph IAG wants to buy the BMI slots (and TAP).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... throw.html

[Air Key West]

Nobody wants BMI, but he who has the money will want to acquire the precious slots (worth a fortune).

[tolipanebas]

Nobody wants BMI, but he who has the money will want to acquire the precious slots (worth a fortune).

Estimated at £770M or well over €900M according the latest valuation and probably more even given there will be a bidding franzy between BA (which will have the unique change to move their entire LGW ops to LHR) and VS (which will be able to get itself a real feeder airline at LHR) as well as several US, Asian and Gulf carriers who'll eagerly want to increase their presence at LHR too!