Brussels Airport: why not overhauling the B-pier?

[Conti764]

You probably all know the 'lichtstraat', it is this infrastructure on the B-pier:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-W8VZ6KID-D.jpg

It is quite obsolete at this moment, at least at the higher level. I'd renovate this part massively and give it an 'A-pier-style' overhaul. At ground level the stores would get renovated and at the second level I'd install some sort of transfer center where people on transfer through the airport can pass a nice time waiting.

[JOVAN]

I think it is more urgent to clean up the dirtyiness outside the buildings: have a look at the departure curve: cigarettes, tin cans, old newspapers, full dustbins,...not cleaned in months

and then the Arrival and taxi waiting area: cold, wet, poorly illuminated, stinking, again dirt everywhere,...disgusting: Welcome to Belgium.

Let them start there: 5 or 10 people can finish the job in one day.

[Stij]

I think it is more urgent to clean up the dirtyiness outside the buildings: have a look at the departure curve: cigarettes, tin cans, old newspapers, full dustbins,...not cleaned in months

and then the Arrival and taxi waiting area: cold, wet, poorly illuminated, stinking, again dirt everywhere,...disgusting: Welcome to Belgium.

Let them start there: 5 or 10 people can finish the job in one day.

I have another suggestion, valid not just for the airport, but for the whole of Belgium:

1. Make a law that punishes people who litter to clean the area where they left thier garbage on a saturday afternoon.
2. Put 1, just 1 one undercover agent to enforce this law. I think they do it that way in Singapre: pretty clean city!

I don't get it why people leave their garbage everywhere. Really, I don't, and it makes me angry!

Cheers,

Stij

[regi]

Last week I saw at the departure level a French driver ( french number plates ) receive a ticket from the airport police next to a pile of cigarrettes ( he probably had just emptied his ashtray ) . I had no time to see if he also had to clean it up.
I think that forcing the driver to clean it up without a ticket would have hurt more than just giving the ticket.

[Stij]

Last week I saw at the departure level a French driver ( french number plates ) receive a ticket from the airport police next to a pile of cigarrettes ( he probably had just emptied his ashtray ) . I had no time to see if he also had to clean it up.
I think that forcing the driver to clean it up without a ticket would have hurt more than just giving the ticket.

My point exactly!

[regi]

You probably all know the 'lichtstraat', it is this infrastructure on the B-pier:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-W8VZ6KID-D.jpg

It is quite obsolete at this moment, at least at the higher level. I'd renovate this part massively and give it an 'A-pier-style' overhaul. At ground level the stores would get renovated and at the second level I'd install some sort of transfer center where people on transfer through the airport can pass a nice time waiting.

The positive point about this rather unused part is that you can find here clean toilets.
But that says more about the state of the toilets in the other areas than about finding a solution to use this department more useful.

[regi]

You probably all know the 'lichtstraat', it is this infrastructure on the B-pier:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-W8VZ6KID-D.jpg

It is quite obsolete at this moment, at least at the higher level. I'd renovate this part massively and give it an 'A-pier-style' overhaul. At ground level the stores would get renovated and at the second level I'd install some sort of transfer center where people on transfer through the airport can pass a nice time waiting.

Imagine a real airport hotel in transit zone.

[Atlantis]

You probably all know the 'lichtstraat', it is this infrastructure on the B-pier:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-W8VZ6KID-D.jpg

It is quite obsolete at this moment, at least at the higher level. I'd renovate this part massively and give it an 'A-pier-style' overhaul. At ground level the stores would get renovated and at the second level I'd install some sort of transfer center where people on transfer through the airport can pass a nice time waiting.

Hmmm it's still a nice place. Instead of using money for that they better spend it for T2. That's urgent.

[Conti764]

You probably all know the 'lichtstraat', it is this infrastructure on the B-pier:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-W8VZ6KID-D.jpg

It is quite obsolete at this moment, at least at the higher level. I'd renovate this part massively and give it an 'A-pier-style' overhaul. At ground level the stores would get renovated and at the second level I'd install some sort of transfer center where people on transfer through the airport can pass a nice time waiting.

Hmmm it's still a nice place. Instead of using money for that they better spend it for T2. That's urgent.

It's a clean place yes, and calm. But that's it... Except for the food court I don't see much interesting at the lichtstraat. Maybe the 'loungy' seat area at the end, yes...

Besides, with T2 I suppose you mean the new terminal at the old DHL-location? As you said yourself a few weeks ago, this project is far from materializing so there is still plenty of money that can be used to overhaul the part I'm talking about. There are several options for that area...

[Conti764]

You probably all know the 'lichtstraat', it is this infrastructure on the B-pier:
http://www.mijnalbum.nl/GroteFoto-W8VZ6KID-D.jpg

It is quite obsolete at this moment, at least at the higher level. I'd renovate this part massively and give it an 'A-pier-style' overhaul. At ground level the stores would get renovated and at the second level I'd install some sort of transfer center where people on transfer through the airport can pass a nice time waiting.

Imagine a real airport hotel in transit zone.

I always found the IRDL (the tent structure at the B-pier) to be a good location for such hotel. With a surface of 45 by 50 meter, a six to seven story building could roughly give about 120 rooms of 10 x 5 meter and a nice restaurant on top. Such infrastructure at that location would be unique I guess and another argument BRU could use in attracting international carriers...

But it seems like they need the IRDL for aviation ops so it is out of the question I suppose...

[jessy]

As said before they better spend the money in cleaning things up outside the buildings.

Next to that, they already considered making a new terminal for the low cost airlines. This obviously increases the number of gate slots which is highly needed as the SN A330s stand pretty much at the A-term because the B-term is full ...
So I would say to put some more money in creating gate slots to allow airlines to expand and be attractive for other airlines searching for a new EU Destination(by making another terminal for instance, I never understood why they just removed the old terminal 3 and that they converted the satellite terminal to offices, they better would have overhauled them to keep the available slots).
But that's just my point of view

[regi]

As said before they better spend the money in cleaning things up outside the buildings.

Next to that, they already considered making a new terminal for the low cost airlines. This obviously increases the number of gate slots which is highly needed as the SN A330s stand pretty much at the A-term because the B-term is full ...
So I would say to put some more money in creating gate slots to allow airlines to expand and be attractive for other airlines searching for a new EU Destination(by making another terminal for instance, I never understood why they just removed the old terminal 3 and that they converted the satellite terminal to offices, they better would have overhauled them to keep the available slots).
But that's just my point of view

Just a personnal thought. Satellite terminals are from the past ( Paris Term 1, Brussels, Abu Dhabi ) It creates problems with space/security during pre-boarding. Imagine a LCC terminal with many movements of full flights. ( that is LCC activity I suppose ). It would require the airport/airline staff to check every passenger if he takes the right flight. This happens now also, but passengers are divided much better before boarding than at a central waiting area, with much less mistakes ( by passengers )
O'Learry and friends hate time consuming procedures.

[jessy]

I agree with that but that could be solved by dividing the even gate numbers on the first floor and the odd gate numbers on the second floor (just a small thought). But that's not the point. SN needs to place passengers for African flights on the A-Term where normally passport control is not needed as the A-Term is for Shengen countries. And this only because the B-Term is full of planes. So you regularly see SN A330s at the A-Term requiring passengers to firstly pass passport control for B-Term and then they need to go to the A-Term again. That's also time consuming in my eyes.
Just pointing out that they have a lack of appropriate gates for the flights not going to/coming from non-shengen countries and that that holds further expansion ...

if my logic makes sense

[regi]

As said before they better spend the money in cleaning things up outside the buildings.

Next to that, they already considered making a new terminal for the low cost airlines. This obviously increases the number of gate slots which is highly needed as the SN A330s stand pretty much at the A-term because the B-term is full ...
So I would say to put some more money in creating gate slots to allow airlines to expand and be attractive for other airlines searching for a new EU Destination(by making another terminal for instance, I never understood why they just removed the old terminal 3 and that they converted the satellite terminal to offices, they better would have overhauled them to keep the available slots).
But that's just my point of view

Just a personnal thought. Satellite terminals are from the past ( Paris Term 1, Brussels, Abu Dhabi ) It creates problems with space/security during pre-boarding. Imagine a LCC terminal with many movements of full flights. ( that is LCC activity I suppose ). It would require the airport/airline staff to check every passenger if he takes the right flight. This happens now also, but passengers are divided much better before boarding than at a central waiting area, with much less mistakes ( by passengers )
O'Learry and friends hate time consuming procedures.

And just when I say that satellite terminals are from the past, they decide in Bangkok that it is the right solution. Better kept my mouth shut.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/avi ... caled-back

[Atlantis]

there is still plenty of money that can be used to overhaul the part I'm talking about. There are several options for that area...

And who is going to pay for that? Macquarie is not a golden cow you know.

They made the right decission to renovate first a part of the old terminal with own entrance for their home leisure carriers. Good for them and pax.

Other projects are more urgent then the "lichtstraat". No one is complaining about this.

[Stij]

Maybe a stupid Idea, but why not:

"If" and "when" the A pier has been expanded and turned into the most effective Star Alliance Hub on earth, couldn't we do the following:

Move security from the beginning of B-Pier to where bordercontroll is now.
This way, people shop behind the security lines, what should make them a bit more relaxed during their shopping experience.
Also, security could be performed their for ALL flights, also for Schengen flights, easy transfer between the two piers would be possible then (for Schengen flights of course).
Now we move all the lounges to the Gallery of light, liberating the top floor of the B-pier.
This Top Floor can be used for non-Schengen departures, turning the first half of the B-Pier into a flexible Schengen non-schengen Pier (morning Long Haul, evening Short-Haul.

Of course a lot will have to be rebuilt, but it could work.

Cheers,

Stij

[Conti764]

Other projects are more urgent then the "lichtstraat". No one is complaining about this.

With all due respect, but that's a lousy argument. The best performing companies don't react, they work proactive to maximize the intrest in their product. When people start complaining, it is too late.

Besides, overhauling that part of the B-pier doesn't cost heaps of money...

[Atlantis]

Other projects are more urgent then the "lichtstraat". No one is complaining about this.

With all due respect, but that's a lousy argument. The best performing companies don't react, they work proactive to maximize the intrest in their product. When people start complaining, it is too late.

Besides, overhauling that part of the B-pier doesn't cost heaps of money...

I don't see "the intrest in their product" of the gallery of light. It's a nice, clean and quiet part of the Diamant. The shops, restaurants, bars etc are moving all the way.

If you want to overhaul it you have to investigate and ask first the needs of your clients -> pax.
Brussels Airport invested a lot of money in new retail, with success, in the A and B pier. That was necessary because pax has to spend their money on the airport. New retail will come in the new T2 and the renovated old terminal. Those are the places were 95% of the pax are.

Like I have said, other projects are more urgent. And it's not because the Australian Macquarie Airports runs 75% of the airport that Brussels Airport can ask what they want. You would be surprised if you would know all of it.

[regi]

Other projects are more urgent then the "lichtstraat". No one is complaining about this.

With all due respect, but that's a lousy argument. The best performing companies don't react, they work proactive to maximize the intrest in their product. When people start complaining, it is too late.

Besides, overhauling that part of the B-pier doesn't cost heaps of money...

I don't see "the intrest in their product" of the gallery of light. It's a nice, clean and quiet part of the Diamant. The shops, restaurants, bars etc are moving all the way.

If you want to overhaul it you have to investigate and ask first the needs of your clients -> pax.
Brussels Airport invested a lot of money in new retail, with success, in the A and B pier. That was necessary because pax has to spend their money on the airport. New retail will come in the new T2 and the renovated old terminal. Those are the places were 95% of the pax are.

Like I have said, other projects are more urgent. And it's not because the Australian Macquarie Airports runs 75% of the airport that Brussels Airport can ask what they want. You would be surprised if you would know all of it.

OK, all are right from a certain point of view. But where is the study?
Study?
Return on investment, return on assets, things like that. It is now a company that has to fork out the money, not the tax payer. So economical issues will decide.

[Conti764]

So you regularly see SN A330s at the A-Term requiring passengers to firstly pass passport control for B-Term and then they need to go to the A-Term again. That's also time consuming in my eyes.

Not entirely true... Pax for Africa originating at BRU go straight from the departure hall to the T-zone, passing security for the shengen zone and the entire A-pier. This is perfectly possible since untill entry into the T-zone, they are still inside the Shengen area. At the entry point of the T-zone there is an extra bordercontrol.

Pax for Africa transferring through BRU go to the IRDL (the tent structure) where the airport has dedicated one area entirely for Brussels Airlines, before being allowed into the T-zone they are subject to a security check. Passengers bound for Africa can board the bus at this area which takes them up to the end of the A-pier, where they enter the A-pier via a gate at ground level, go up one floor and they arrive in the middle of the T-zone. Those pax are not required to pass passport control because they are not about to enter the Shengen area.

It is not perfect, but it works quite well. The system even has advantages for SN's own European operation. Euro pax can transfer from Euro to Africa flights in no time. And the same counts for all of SN's European partners who's flights originate at a Shengen country.

The only downside IMHO is the lack of shops and bars when you come from e.g. the USA and go to Africa. If you want to shop, you'd have to go to the tax free zone of the B-pier and afterwards pass security again. There is one relatively small bar at the beginning of the T-zone.

So it is not perfect, it has some flaws, but it works. And when the western expansion of the A-pier is ready and the A-pier becomes the 'under one roof'-infrastructure of Star Alliance, it will provide SN and their partners, both shengen and non-shengen, with an easy and flawless operation.