Israel/France Aviation

777 · Post by **777** » 15 Oct 2003, 22:16

Before the six day war (how many days did it last ?),
the Israeli Defence Force (IDF), had nearly only french made planes and
helicopters.
During the war, De Gaulle put an embargo on french spare parts.
The US immediately aided the Israelis with Phantom II F-4's and other planes.
The result has been that the Israeli never trusted France again and
exclusively relied(still do) on American and Israeli aircraft.
They stole(espionage) the plans of the Swiss Air Force Mirages III and
made a much improved version called de Kfir.They also sold them to
South American countries and there is a cooperation with South Africa.
This is also the reason they chose recently for the B777.
They consider the Boeing 777 as a suppirior plane, don't forget Israeli
pilots are among the best in the world.
(I was in Libya flying KLA Caravelles during the six day war).

Andre

Lien · Post by **Lien** » 15 Oct 2003, 23:08

Hi 777, I didn't know you ever were in a war ?

Lien !

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 16 Oct 2003, 06:11

777 wrote:This is also the reason they chose recently for the B777.
They consider the Boeing 777 as a suppirior plane, don't forget Israeli
pilots are among the best in the world. Andre

Am I missing something, Andre? You say: This is also the reason...
What is 'this'?

Why they buy 777? Because the Boeing is making a good bargain price, and because the (B) million $ loosing airline cannot get any credit elsewhere... that is the reason...

... among the best in the world.... Aren't we all among the best in the world.

Incident concerning ELAL are considered military secret, so we do not know what happens...
The only thing I know of ELAL, because I saw it with my own eyes, that was when an ELAL aircraft failed to brake at LHR and came with the nose in the terminal building.... And I do not mention the awful way their security agents behaved then (and many other times, I saw them manhandling black workers at JNB airport, nice guys) This is not an airline to put as an example...)
Look what I mean see Haaretz today Ministry slams high El Al prices: Deputy CEO of El Al Yoav Levy dismissed claims of overcharging.

777 · Post by **777** » 16 Oct 2003, 09:09

In fact Airbus had a better price.

Knowing Airbus, sometimes(often ?)
they sell at cost or lower ,considered
as future investment.

Andre

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 16 Oct 2003, 09:29

777 wrote:In fact Airbus had a better price. Andre

Then it was the finance that made that possible....

Lien · Post by **Lien** » 17 Oct 2003, 00:29

SN30952 wrote: A recession is when you have to tighten your belt; depression is when you have no belt to tighten. When you've lost your trousers - you're in the airline business.
Sir Adam Thomson

You have the best quote on the whole site, Fons.

Lien !

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 17 Oct 2003, 08:18

Lien wrote:You have the best quote on the whole site, Fons.
Lien !

Thanks Lien and thanks Adam T.

compilots · Post by **compilots** » 17 Oct 2003, 13:30

I must agree with 777 when he said that Israeli Pilots are among the best in the world but with one correction. They are among the best Fighter Pilots and not Civil Pilots.

Most of EL-AL pilots are Fighter Pilots and when they enter a Boeing they still think they are flying a Fighter Jet! Thus they manhandle the aircraft and fly roughly, flying with guts and instinct and not with their head! That sort of flying is great for Fighter Jets but not for Civil Jets.

As to the choosing Boeing over AIRBUS, well, it is all politics! They choose Boeing because of certain obligations they have to the USA and other secrete agendas which are not made public!

777 · Post by **777** » 17 Oct 2003, 14:13

Most of EL-AL pilots are Fighter Pilots and when they enter a Boeing they still think they are flying a Fighter Jet! Thus they manhandle the aircraft and fly roughly, flying with guts and instinct and not with their head! That sort of flying is great for Fighter Jets but not for Civil Jets.

This is just the positive element....experience and beeing prepared
for emergencies. Especially in a terrorist era.
They haven't had a crash for a while. Considering safety they are
the safest airline in the world.
Give me an israeli pilot on my flight.

As to the choosing Boeing over AIRBUS, well, it is all politics! They choose Boeing because of certain obligations they have to the USA and other secrete agendas which are not made public!

Don't forget that EL AL, IAI, etc... are specialised in transforming
B707's and B747's. The latter ,transformation to cargo configuration.

In the future probably the B767. Several ex-Sabena 707's have
served with the IDF.

The main problem is reliability on spare parts, even in crisis
peroids. They have learned forever.

Andre

compilots · Post by **compilots** » 17 Oct 2003, 15:12

Well... My point was that El-AL does not choose Boeing over AIRBUS because it is superior but for other reasons. As to Boeing being superior to AIRBUS, I really don’t know!

Regarding Israeli pilots, well... Maybe at this day and age it is better to have Fighter Pilots in the cockpit but don’t expect a smooth flight!

777 · Post by **777** » 17 Oct 2003, 16:18

compilots wrote: Regarding Israeli pilots, well... Maybe at this day and age it is better to have Fighter Pilots in the cockpit but don’t expect a smooth flight!

Since 1970 I have seen freedom in aviation steadily degrading.
It kept on degrading, and still is today.

BTW what's the security level in Charleroi ?

Between 1968 and 1972 I rember visiting the 'terraces'
on the two piers at Zaventem almost every saturday.

Lets hope one day .......

Andre

Post by **sn26567** » 17 Oct 2003, 16:39

777 wrote:BTW what's the security level in Charleroi ?

Could you please explain what you mean? Are there any reasons to believe that security at CRL is not what it should be?

777 · Post by **777** » 17 Oct 2003, 16:54

No, I just wandered if the levels are as high as at Zaventem ?

Andre

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 21 Oct 2003, 07:47

Andre wrote:Don't forget that EL AL, IAI, etc... are specialised in transforming
B707's and B747's. The latter, transformation to cargo configuration.
In the future probably the B767. Several ex-Sabena 707's have
served with the IDF. Andre

It is in the same time a pitty and a shame...
Transformation to cargo configuration of B707's and B747's.... We all now what the purpose is....

With all this technology Israel is building a killing machine, causing death and dissarray.

Bankokpost has an "EXCLUSIVE" interview, as for the moment there is APEC conference in BKK.
Mahathir
There is goodwill, and there is war, some people want the last and that tells it all....

compilots · Post by **compilots** » 21 Oct 2003, 09:54

HA,
Unbelievable what some people say, especially when they do not know what they are talking about.
It is clear that Dr.Mahathir is prejudice and a complete fool.

Any educated person would agree that he has no understanding of what is real and what is fiction.

His words are pure propaganda and disregard the terror that Israel has to deal with every day!

SO… What I am trying to say is: Don’t judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes!

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 22 Oct 2003, 04:57

compilots wrote:HA, Any educated person would agree that he has no understanding of what is real and what is fiction.
SO? What I am trying to say is: Don?t judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes!

Talking about an educated person.... Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes!
By the way he walks (and eats) I have many doubts about some retired general's education, and lets hope he'd better not walk a(-nother) mile...

We all hope soon to see a new generation of WELL educated persons, not retired generals, causing again death and dissarray in the ME.
We all hope soon to see YOUNG people not consumed by hate, with more restraint and respect for each other and for us.
As this last 35 years have been very costly to us, Westerners and they brought the peoples of the ME too much sorrow.
Fons Coch
This is

fftopic:, I know, and it should go to a political forum, an aviation forum is not about these matters? Education is also how one should behave on e.g. a forum, we are not used to 'some' words on the forum, are we?

compilots · Post by **compilots** » 22 Oct 2003, 11:15

SN30952 wrote: This is fftopic:, I know, and it should go to a political forum, an aviation forum is not about these matters? Education is also how one should behave on e.g. a forum, we are not used to 'some' words on the forum, are we?

I am glad you have come to realize that you have made a mistake by posting your political views and orienting this discussion to the political domain.

I like reading your posts both on the forums and on the news page but I would appreciate if you would refrain from offering your personal political views in the future.

Anyway, as to make sure non of us is left with a bitter taste in his mouth I apologize if I have offended you by using words that you are not used to seeing on the forum.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 22 Oct 2003, 12:07

I feel very insulted...
When I said: with more restraint and respect for each other and for us.
What comes after the insults?

I'll post my papers as usual for all 'readers & members-1'

, unless peolpe tell me not to do.
Then I'll keep them in my files on my harddisk.

Post by **luchtzak** » 22 Oct 2003, 19:09

SN30952 and Compilots,

this topic-title is clearly saying: "Israel/France Aviation" but it resulted in a topic with political ideas and opinions. I suggest to stay with the aviation-thing and to keep personal political ideas for a political forum.

This topic is now considered closed!

greetings,

Bart
:rock:

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Israel/France Aviation

Israel/France Aviation

Re: Israel/France Aviation

Finance is major player in aircraft buying, leasing...

Thanks

The killing machine....

Bull ****

Re: [NOT] Bull ****

I feel very insulted...