SN Brussels to London City

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 21 Dec 2004, 12:30

Are SN Brussels going to serve London City?

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 21 Dec 2004, 12:39

Back in 2002, SNBA codeshared VLM's flights between London City and Brussels, but I can't imagine that SNBA will operate a LCY-BRU service, as VLM already have several flights daily between the two airports.

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 21 Dec 2004, 13:12

The reason I asked was that I got my copy Airport Timetables UK today and under LCY it listed times for SN Brussels flights to BRU with To Be Confirmed at the side a if they had applied for the slots but didnt know if the had got them

Post by **sn26567** » 21 Dec 2004, 14:08

Competition would be welcome on that route.

OO-SBZ · Post by **OO-SBZ** » 21 Dec 2004, 14:59

sn26567 wrote:Competition would be welcome on that route.

Indeed André!
Competition is always welcome when one airline uses its position to "offer" (

) higher fares on a route...

Regards

BeN

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 21 Dec 2004, 16:15

Many people who used to fly with Sabena switched to VLM, and London City is a convenient airport.

Competition would be welcome on that route.

Do you have a problem with paying for quality? The meals and service on VLM are very good, and for smaller aircraft they have good legroom and some nice leather seats inside those Fokker 50s.

Don't condemn what you haven't experienced. (Or is this the anti-VLM brigade warming up again in time for Christmas?)

AN124 · Post by **AN124** » 21 Dec 2004, 16:37

This has nothing to do with a anti VLM brigade Louise.

But if you look to the prices for a round trip in January (22-25) with VLM you need to pay 451.09 Euro.
And that's the cheapest fare according to their booking system.

In my opinion this is a high price and t his could be lower for sure.

Best Regards,
Yvo

Post by **sn26567** » 21 Dec 2004, 17:04

Comet wrote:Don't condemn what you haven't experienced.

Who is condemning what? Please read carefully what I wrote: I said that competition is needed on that route to bring the prices down. In the same way as on BRU FRA or BRU-STR.

Anyway, I will never fly VLM to London when I have a much more comfortable trip on the EuroStar in first class with a lot of shoulder room, even more legroom and a delicious free meal with free alcoholic drinks, and a comfortable waiting lounge with even more free drinks, and that all for less than half the price.

That does not mean that I am against VLM. It only means that I exercise my freedom of choice.

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 21 Dec 2004, 17:31

I totally agree with you sn26567. It is absurd to pay so much for a ticket from Brussels to London city. I really hope SN will fly to London city and reduce the price of the ticket.
Competition is always good for the costumers!

OO-SBZ · Post by **OO-SBZ** » 21 Dec 2004, 19:15

AN124 wrote:But if you look to the prices for a round trip in January (22-25) with VLM you need to pay 451.09 Euro.
And that's the cheapest fare according to their booking system.

In my opinion this is a high price and t his could be lower for sure.

Best Regards,
Yvo

Indeed Yvo... more than €450 for a short 317-km hop

Even if you get a caviar-buffet with champagne in a real business jet, this is not worth the money...

For my last journey from Liege-City (well... Guillemins) to London-Waterloo (close to the City

) I paid € 80 (21 day-advance-booking)

Moreover I wonder how many people could afford this fare if they had to pay it themselves...

Regards

BeN

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 21 Dec 2004, 19:21

Anyway, I will never fly VLM to London when I have a much more comfortable trip on the EuroStar in first class with a lot of shoulder room, even more legroom and a delicious free meal with free alcoholic drinks, and a comfortable waiting lounge with even more free drinks, and that all for less than half the price.

How do you know that Eurostar is more comfortable when you have never flown with VLM? You get free food on VLM, and free alcoholic drink as well.

You never praise VLM, or indeed have anything positive to say about them, but you are always so quick to do them down or complain about them, so how can you be surprised when people assume that you hate them?

I enjoyed my flights with VLM - their aircraft were comfortable, the food was good and the service very professional. I am not going to say otherwise just to suit some people.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 21 Dec 2004, 19:36

I've flown on VLM once to London City and back and the service was great indeed. My aunt travelled with the Eurostar in first class to London, they used to take the plane, and even flying in Y was more expensive than the first class in Eurostar (ok, it was a promotion: to London in y, back to Brussels in C).

Take a look at this 3D tour: (lounges, first class, ....)

http://www.eurostar.com/dctm/ipix/nl/tr ... ss_nl.html

LJ · Post by LJ » 21 Dec 2004, 20:00

Moreover I wonder how many people could afford this fare if they had to pay it themselves...

Not many but then again, if VLM charges this fare for these days it must be a sign that their aircraft are filling up nicely.

BTW ever looked at the fully flexible prices of Eurostar (round trip first class of EUR 530 and EUR 330 second class)???? Before one cmpares prices one has to agree that a) LCY is a high yield business destination, b) comparing restricted fares with fully flexible fares (which the business pax on these routes usually use is comparing aplles and oranges and c) most pax get their fare paid by their employer (who usually pays much less than the EUR 450 quoted in the reservation systems)

OO-SBZ · Post by **OO-SBZ** » 21 Dec 2004, 20:04

LJ wrote:BTW ever looked at the fully flexible prices of Eurostar (round trip first class of EUR 530 and EUR 330 second class)???? Before one cmpares prices one has to agree that a) LCY is a high yield business destination, b) comparing restricted fares with fully flexible fares (which the business pax on these routes usually use is comparing aplles and oranges and c) most pax get their fare paid by their employer (who usually pays much less than the EUR 450 quoted in the reservation systems)

That's the reason why I included these pieces of information
a) from any Belgian station to Waterloo
b) 21-day-advance booking
c) paid by myself

BeN

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 21 Dec 2004, 20:04

The reason I asked was that I got my copy Airport Timetables UK today and under LCY it listed times for SN Brussels flights to BRU with To Be Confirmed at the side a if they had applied for the slots but didnt know if the had got them

Let's hope they did, or will file for some slits in LCY. It would indeed by good to have some competition on that route as well.

Do you have a problem with paying for quality? The meals and service on VLM are very good, and for smaller aircraft they have good legroom and some nice leather seats inside those Fokker 50s.

Nobody said that the meals or the service isn't good on VLM. A monopole is never good for the customer. Airlines tend to sell the tickets at a higher fare and will tend to be less "perfect" on those flights. What I mean hereby is that if SN and VLM would compete between BRU-LCY both airlines will constantly need to adjust there fares and to be sure that there service is better than the one from the competitor.
And the winner in such competitions is the customer.

It's nothing against VLM but it's just common sense.

Or is this the anti-VLM brigade warming up again in time for Christmas?

It's funny to see how you feel offended, just because someone says that some competition would be welcome...... You are warming up the tensions over here again and not the others. So better think twice before posting such comments next time.

much more comfortable trip on the EuroStar in first class with a lot of shoulder room, even more legroom and a delicious free meal with free alcoholic drinks, and a comfortable waiting lounge with even more free drinks, and that all for less than half the price.

I agree with you André. I never experienced the Eurostar yet, but if I need to go to the center of London, then the train is by far more convenient than the plane. It's cheaper, it's quick and pleasant as well

Chris

BRU-CPH · Post by **BRU-CPH** » 21 Dec 2004, 20:55

I'm wondering why people fly from Brussels to London city. Exept when you have a connection in one of both, you are quicker in London by Eurostar, in a more environmentally friendly way and most of the time also cheaper.

If the air is going to be congested by 2025 or something, short haul flights should be limited and a convenient high-speed rail service should be developped to take over the transport on these. It is no use burning that much of kerosene to get a plane in the air if you can go there by train.

sab319 · Post by **sab319** » 21 Dec 2004, 21:41

BRU-CPH wrote:I'm wondering why people fly from Brussels to London city. Exept when you have a connection in one of both, you are quicker in London by Eurostar, in a more environmentally friendly way and most of the time also cheaper.

If the air is going to be congested by 2025 or something, short haul flights should be limited and a convenient high-speed rail service should be developped to take over the transport on these. It is no use burning that much of kerosene to get a plane in the air if you can go there by train.

I agree a 100%

I experienced Eurostar and it's way more comfortable than a plane!!!

Ozzie1969 · Post by **Ozzie1969** » 22 Dec 2004, 00:23

Isn't London City an airport that is more focused on the business traveller than the tourist? And that might apply to VLM as well. I'm not stating that as a fact, I'm just asking. That's what it looks like to me, in any case.

By the way, BRU-CPH : I can understand your reasoning with congestion making short haul flights perhaps undesirable in the future, but trains don't run on water either, you know. With such a small percentage of electricity generated from renewable sources, your train is going to be polluting as well!

But to get back to the point : some competition on that route is never going to hurt the customer. Unless of course SN Brussels and VLM come to some gentleman's agreement...

Post by **sn26567** » 22 Dec 2004, 10:09

Comet wrote:How do you know that Eurostar is more comfortable when you have never flown with VLM?

Because I know that the legroom and shoulder room in EuroStar's first class are larger than on any airline I have ever flown and that the meals are more substantial than any VLM meal pictured on airlinemeals.net.

Back to the topic: there is an interesting interview of Johan Vanneste, CEO of VLM Airlines, today in La Libre Belgique. He re-affirms the niche of VLM (flights from 'expensive' airport of London City, mainly for business people who represent 86% of his customers) and confirms that his main competitor is ... EuroStar.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 22 Dec 2004, 15:24

The meals on Eurostar will be more substantial than on VLM because it takes more than twice as long to travel between the same cities! You cannot expect a large meal served on a flight of only around 50 minutes (compared to more than two hours it will take you on the Eurostar,) you cannot argue with that point.

And yes, London City is an expensive airport, but all the better for it because you don't get the lager lout element you get in places like MAN, or screaming brats running all over, or Burger King or McDonalds outlets like you get in cheaper airports. The eating at London City is very good standard, compared with Birmingham (an airport which I otherwise love) which has very bad eating facilities.

I object to the whole principle of the Eurostar on health grounds. I don't call it Rabies Express for nothing. Before the bloody tunnel to carry that thing was built, there was no rabies in the UK. Since that opened we have had several cases of people being bitten by bats and someone has died of rabies. And where else do bats like to congregate than in dark places like tunnels?