It has been rumoured that British airline pilots may be set for action after changes in the pilots working hours were announced. The pilots may have to fly longer sectors than before without a change of crew, or without extra crews. The BALPA (British Airline Pilots Association) said that pilots may refuse to fly if they were fatigued and could therefore put the safety of the flight at risk. This threatens chaos for many holiday travellers in the summer.
Is this something unique to Britain or is it being done elsewhere?
Possible British pilot action soon
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Comet
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Possible British pilot action soon
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
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Advisor
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In India a similar proposal by the airlines was put but the airline unions strongly opposed it and yes they hilighted the main point that due to fatigue, the safety of the passengers may be jeapordized.
I think that if fatigue is the key aspect, what remains to see is that how are we so happy and keen to receive the future generation of aircrafts which talk of long haul, direct and non-stop flights!
I think that if fatigue is the key aspect, what remains to see is that how are we so happy and keen to receive the future generation of aircrafts which talk of long haul, direct and non-stop flights!
Aum Sweet Aum.
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Comet
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Fatigue is a bad thing for anybody, but in a job like airline pilot it is deadly. The people who make these stupid rules often have no idea about those they are making the rules about. They will be made by those stupid geeks in Westminster (or that monstrosity in dear old Brussels) who know nothing about how pilots should work. Such decisions should always be made in consultation with those they will affect.
At the end of the day it all comes down to money. Why have two crews on board an aircraft when you can have only one crew which will not cost as much?
I don't know if this is purely a British idea, or if those EU morons have thought it up.
At the end of the day it all comes down to money. Why have two crews on board an aircraft when you can have only one crew which will not cost as much?
I don't know if this is purely a British idea, or if those EU morons have thought it up.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
Pilot Fatigue
This is a reprint of the TSB letter regarding the 747 crash in Halifax.
Pay close attention to the hours the crew were expected to work, and tell me that fatigue was not a factor in that crash?, the total time on duty was over 20 hours.
From FlightInternational.com
Sorry unable get link to work.
Weight assessment methods, runway information at Halifax and crew fatigue all concern Canadian safety board
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSBC) has written two safety advisory letters to the country's transport department following the 14 October crash of an MK Airlines Boeing 747-200F at Halifax, Nova Scotia. One concerns the data available on the runway slope at Halifax, the other draws attention to assessment methods used to determine the weight of freight pallets loaded with packages at airports where there is no ability to weigh the full pallet.
In addition, the elapsed time from take-off at Luxembourg to the attempted take-off in Canada has been confirmed by the TSBC as 12h 6min. The destination of Zaragoza, Spain would have meant a further 8h crew duty. The same augmented crew, consisting of two captains, a first officer, two flight engineers, a loadmaster and a ground engineer were rostered to perform the entire trip from Luxembourg via Bradley, Connecticut, on to Halifax; and finally to Zaragoza. All seven died in the accident.
Asked whether this was an excessive duty period even for an augmented crew, Ghana-registered MK says that it has since changed its rostering to bring it in line with European practices, but claims this was the result of a study begun early this year, not as a reaction to the accident.
The TSBC says its safety advisory letters do not imply a cause for the accident, but it says that concerns about the quality of data from which take-off performance calculations were made have arisen as a result of investigations into the MK incident.
The TSBC confirms, for example, that pallets of seafood loaded on to the 747 at Halifax could not be weighed when filled, so their weight was calculated as a multiple of the assessed average weight of the packages stacked on it. The aircraft attempted a take-off, but did not get airborne despite two tailscrapes near the runway end, after which its tail hit an earth and concrete bank 200m (650ft) beyond the runway and detached.
And the following is the most important, check your facts its easy to draw the wrong conclusions.
The TSBC will not comment on whether crew fatigue might have been a factor in the accident. The board also says that it is not allowed by law to reveal flight data recorder (FDR) information in advance of the accident report, so local press claims that FDR data shows the aircraft began its take-off at a low power setting and only increased it to the planned setting close to rotation have not come from official sources.
DAVID LEARMOUNT / LONDON
Pay close attention to the hours the crew were expected to work, and tell me that fatigue was not a factor in that crash?, the total time on duty was over 20 hours.
From FlightInternational.com
Sorry unable get link to work.
Weight assessment methods, runway information at Halifax and crew fatigue all concern Canadian safety board
The Transportation Safety Board of Canada (TSBC) has written two safety advisory letters to the country's transport department following the 14 October crash of an MK Airlines Boeing 747-200F at Halifax, Nova Scotia. One concerns the data available on the runway slope at Halifax, the other draws attention to assessment methods used to determine the weight of freight pallets loaded with packages at airports where there is no ability to weigh the full pallet.
In addition, the elapsed time from take-off at Luxembourg to the attempted take-off in Canada has been confirmed by the TSBC as 12h 6min. The destination of Zaragoza, Spain would have meant a further 8h crew duty. The same augmented crew, consisting of two captains, a first officer, two flight engineers, a loadmaster and a ground engineer were rostered to perform the entire trip from Luxembourg via Bradley, Connecticut, on to Halifax; and finally to Zaragoza. All seven died in the accident.
Asked whether this was an excessive duty period even for an augmented crew, Ghana-registered MK says that it has since changed its rostering to bring it in line with European practices, but claims this was the result of a study begun early this year, not as a reaction to the accident.
The TSBC says its safety advisory letters do not imply a cause for the accident, but it says that concerns about the quality of data from which take-off performance calculations were made have arisen as a result of investigations into the MK incident.
The TSBC confirms, for example, that pallets of seafood loaded on to the 747 at Halifax could not be weighed when filled, so their weight was calculated as a multiple of the assessed average weight of the packages stacked on it. The aircraft attempted a take-off, but did not get airborne despite two tailscrapes near the runway end, after which its tail hit an earth and concrete bank 200m (650ft) beyond the runway and detached.
And the following is the most important, check your facts its easy to draw the wrong conclusions.
The TSBC will not comment on whether crew fatigue might have been a factor in the accident. The board also says that it is not allowed by law to reveal flight data recorder (FDR) information in advance of the accident report, so local press claims that FDR data shows the aircraft began its take-off at a low power setting and only increased it to the planned setting close to rotation have not come from official sources.
DAVID LEARMOUNT / LONDON
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Comet
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Crew fatigue sounds like a very likely factor in that accident. When you are fatigued your reaction time and judgement drops dramatically. Although it is off topic on here, you see the same problems with junior doctors having to work crippling hours, thereby putting patient's lives at risk. There is absolutely no excuse at all, as I have said, the driving factor is always money and profit. That should not be the case where lives are concerned.
Maybe the threat of a strike by pilots may be enough to bring airline companies to their senses. BA soon got off their backsides when the check in and handling staff were about to strike last August. An airline cannot function without its pilots so they should be treated with more respect and not worked into the ground.
Maybe the threat of a strike by pilots may be enough to bring airline companies to their senses. BA soon got off their backsides when the check in and handling staff were about to strike last August. An airline cannot function without its pilots so they should be treated with more respect and not worked into the ground.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
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Comet
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Well said Advisor. It should be the priority to prevent a tragic accident, rather than wait until people have been killed and then say that they should not have overworked the pilots.Advisor wrote:I agree with Comet that the airlines cannot function without its pilots and yes fatigue should be really looked into.
Prevention is always better than cure.
Can someone answer the question about whether or not this stupid idea has been dreamed up by the EU (I wouldn't be surprised) or if it is purely a British idea. The UK media obviously only reports this from a British point of view.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
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Agreeing with you once again, i aptly point out that the policy makers are those elected representatives who are either rarely a part of that industry or care two hoots anways for the safety and security of the airline crew and passengers.
For them, media presence is more important. Look at INDIA. Every moment u see some joker up on the news, trying to blame the other for a mishap. Committes are formed, policies formulated, but alas, by the time they come into either effect or force, the ruling co-alition has either lost the election or the new ruling party has other priorities.
I call this simply an act of politics.
For them, media presence is more important. Look at INDIA. Every moment u see some joker up on the news, trying to blame the other for a mishap. Committes are formed, policies formulated, but alas, by the time they come into either effect or force, the ruling co-alition has either lost the election or the new ruling party has other priorities.
I call this simply an act of politics.
Aum Sweet Aum.