BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

TLspotting
Posts: 2515
Joined: 19 Mar 2017, 10:22
Location: Uccle/Ukkel, BE
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by TLspotting »

Air Canada route to YYZ to be launched on 25 October.
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

TLspotting
Posts: 2515
Joined: 19 Mar 2017, 10:22
Location: Uccle/Ukkel, BE
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by TLspotting »

Air Belgium announces from Mid-December a new route, from Brussels Airport to Mauritius.
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

TLspotting
Posts: 2515
Joined: 19 Mar 2017, 10:22
Location: Uccle/Ukkel, BE
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by TLspotting »

Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

User avatar
Conti764
Posts: 1779
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Conti764 »

TLspotting wrote: 24 Jun 2020, 20:55 No SIA this winter :

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/sing ... ober-2020/
Unfortunately. But expected, I guess...

In about 2 years or so...?

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4483
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Atlantis »

Bad indeed after so much and so long effort.
But OK, it's not lost. They only postpone it. A new route cost really a lot of money. SIA is also hit badly and the load would not be good now.

So, patience again

TLspotting
Posts: 2515
Joined: 19 Mar 2017, 10:22
Location: Uccle/Ukkel, BE
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by TLspotting »

Air Belgium unveils its schedule for Brussels - Mauritius, first flight on 15 December :

KF2301 BRU - MRU 19:20 - 10:10+1 -2--5-- A343

KF2302 MRU - BRU 22:00 - 07:20+1 --3--6- A343

Valid until 26 March 2021 on BRU - MRU and 24 March on MRU - BRU

KF2302 MRU - BRU 22:00 - 08:20+1 27/06/2021

(and opens at the same time bookings)
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 37439
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sn26567 »

TLspotting wrote: 29 Jun 2020, 12:06 Air Belgium unveils its schedule for Brussels - Mauritius, first flight on 15 December :

KF2301 BRU - MRU 19:20 - 10:10+1 -2--5-- A343

KF2302 MRU - BRU 22:00 - 07:20+1 --3--6- A343
Red-eye flights both outbound and inbound! :o

And it looks like the same crew will operate outbound and inbound after some daylight rest in Mauritius...
André
ex Sabena #26567

sdbelgium
Posts: 3806
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 13:32
Location: Gent
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sdbelgium »

Taking into account per/post flight duties and transportation to/from the hotel, the rest is way less than 10h, so no way the same crew will operate the inbound flight on the next day (landing at 10.10, then takeoff at 22.00 the same day).

In this schedule, my guess would be that the crew leaving BRU on Tuesday night will operate back from MRU on the Saturday red-eye after a 84h rest period in Mauritius.

User avatar
HQ_BRU_Lover
Posts: 331
Joined: 22 May 2013, 20:44

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by HQ_BRU_Lover »

Or is another possibility that 2 crews are flying in with one being "off duty" so changing crews in Mauritius to avoid a night-stop or is that not done?

crew1990
Posts: 1136
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 »

HQ_BRU_Lover wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 10:15 Or is another possibility that 2 crews are flying in with one being "off duty" so changing crews in Mauritius to avoid a night-stop or is that not done?
Of course no. A crew performing the outbound flight can fly back directly as passenger, but no way a crew coming with the outbound flight as passenger can fly the aircraft back as crew. you need a minimum rest of minimum 10 hours (or more depending of many parameter like time zone, duty time, number of leg, etc)

In that case the aircraft lands at 10.10 and taking of 11h50 later so it looks like the crew do the outbound flight, stay there at minimum rest and then fly back.

Night flight => minimum rest during day light => night flight ... those crew will be completely destroyed but well if it's fit in the EU-OPS...

crew1990
Posts: 1136
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 »

sdbelgium wrote: 29 Jun 2020, 18:10 Taking into account per/post flight duties and transportation to/from the hotel, the rest is way less than 10h, so no way the same crew will operate the inbound flight on the next day (landing at 10.10, then takeoff at 22.00 the same day).

In this schedule, my guess would be that the crew leaving BRU on Tuesday night will operate back from MRU on the Saturday red-eye after a 84h rest period in Mauritius.
The restime is calculated from block on to block of, so yes it actually fit with the scheduled. But the if there is a delay in the outbound flight, they will have to delay the inbound one

sdbelgium
Posts: 3806
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 13:32
Location: Gent
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sdbelgium »

crew1990 wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 12:59 The restime is calculated from block on to block of, so yes it actually fit with the scheduled. But the if there is a delay in the outbound flight, they will have to delay the inbound one
You might want to check the definitions section of the Chapter 7 of your Operations Manual. It has the following definitions (they are based on ORO.FTL.105).

Rest time
Means a continuous, uninterrupted and defined period of time following a duty or prior to a duty.

Duty
Means any task that a crew member performs for the operator, including flight duty, administrative work, giving or receiving training and checking, positioning and some elements of standby.

Duty period
Means a period which starts when a crew member is required by an operator to report for or to commence a duty and ends when that person is free of all duties, including post flight duty.

While the on blocks time can be used to calculate the end of an FDP (flight duty period), it is not the end of the flight duty. Also, the duty period will start at the time of reporting, as you know for a long haul flight this will usually be at least one hour before the flight.

Even if you calculated rest time from blocks on to block off, in this schedule you'd only have 11h50 (10.10 until 22.00 local time). Unless in exceptional circumstances, rest time will not be less than the longer of the previous flight duty time or twelve hours. As such, it would never be feasible for the outbound crew to fly straight back with this schedule, even taking 'minimum rest' into account.

crew1990
Posts: 1136
Joined: 29 Dec 2010, 21:46

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by crew1990 »

You should have a better look to the rest time section and you might remember (discover) that crew transportation is included in the rest time, as the rest time is calculated from block on to block off. Anyway...

This schedule totally fit for the crew to fly both leg, and this has certainly calculated for this purpose.

Poiu
Posts: 848
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Poiu »

sdbelgium wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 13:54, rest time will not be less than the longer of the previous flight duty time or twelve hours. As such, it would never be feasible for the outbound crew to fly straight back with this schedule, even taking 'minimum rest' into account.
The 12 hours is at home base, it becomes 10 hours away from base, so yes this can be done by the same crew.

sdbelgium
Posts: 3806
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 13:32
Location: Gent
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sdbelgium »

Poiu wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 14:07
sdbelgium wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 13:54, rest time will not be less than the longer of the previous flight duty time or twelve hours. As such, it would never be feasible for the outbound crew to fly straight back with this schedule, even taking 'minimum rest' into account.
The 12 hours is at home base, it becomes 10 hours away from base, so yes this can be done by the same crew.
Not if the duty is longer than the 10 hours though, which it is in this case.

Poiu
Posts: 848
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Poiu »

sdbelgium wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 14:13
Poiu wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 14:07
sdbelgium wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 13:54, rest time will not be less than the longer of the previous flight duty time or twelve hours. As such, it would never be feasible for the outbound crew to fly straight back with this schedule, even taking 'minimum rest' into account.
The 12 hours is at home base, it becomes 10 hours away from base, so yes this can be done by the same crew.
Not if the duty is longer than the 10 hours though, which it is in this case.
Correct, the minimum rest would be equal to the flight duty period, BRU-MRU is probably around 10:30 bock time, 50 minutes preflight, required rest 11h20 which start 30 minutes after arrival, so 11:50 between arrival and departure, exactly as scheduled.

sdbelgium
Posts: 3806
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 13:32
Location: Gent
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sdbelgium »

Sorry to burst your bubble and your convenient calculations, but the block time of BRU-MRU is 11h50 and check-in times for a long haul flight are traditionally at least 60 minutes. That makes a rest time of at least 12h50 which start 30 minutes after arrival and would make it impossible to operate this flight at 22.00 local time.
Attachments
Screenshot 2020-06-30 at 14.40.15.png
Screenshot 2020-06-30 at 14.40.15.png (13.7 KiB) Viewed 2394 times

Poiu
Posts: 848
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by Poiu »

sdbelgium wrote: 30 Jun 2020, 14:40 Sorry to burst your bubble and your convenient calculations, but the block time of BRU-MRU is 11h50 and check-in times for a long haul flight are traditionally at least 60 minutes. That makes a rest time of at least 12h50 which start 30 minutes after arrival and would make it impossible to operate this flight at 22.00 local time.
Not possible indeed with the 11:50, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually one hour less, because someone got confused with summer/winter time.

sdbelgium
Posts: 3806
Joined: 10 Aug 2008, 13:32
Location: Gent
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sdbelgium »

I doubt the schedules would get posted with such amateuristic mistakes, but it has happened so can’t say for sure. The times seem reasonable to me, the return flight actually has a block time of 12h20 and flights from Heathrow are timed at 11h55 block time, while those from CDG are timed at 11h10 southeast-bound.

Even considering your summer/winter time confusion (I wonder what you will come up with next to justify your point), you are still missing at least 30 minutes for post flight duties to get to 11h50... I would suggest we agree to disagree in order to return to the topic at hand.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 37439
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: BRU Winter 2020-2021: news, new routes, airlines

Post by sn26567 »

To settle this discussion, I contacted Air Belgium: they answered that the inbound and outbound flights to Mauritius will be operated by a different crew.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Post Reply