End of the SN African flights operated by Birdy

[sn26567]

On 27 October, the last SN African flight operated by Birdy Airllines (4V) will depart from Brussels Airport. The next day, the African flights will be operated exclusively with an SN flight number, without an asterisk.

I would appreciated receiving more information on the transfer of operations between 4V and SN. For example,

1) Will SN take over the 4V pilots with their current status, wages and seniority?
2) Will SN take over the leases of thee A330-300s?
3) What are the intentions of Victor Hasson and george Gutelman after 28 October?

Etc.

Thanks for any detail that you all could provide.

[gliding-glider]

André,

I've just sent an e-mail to somebody I know within Birdy asking for an latest update.
Allthough this might be hard for them as well, I hope to receive an honnest / informative answer.
I'll keep you updated.

Greetz,

[Avro]

3) What are the intentions of Victor Hasson and george Gutelman after 28 October?

As far as I know they mentioned on TV a couple of months ago that they would start another airline .....

Chris

[SN30952]

3) What are the intentions of Victor Hasson and george Gutelman after 28 October?

As far as I know they mentioned on TV a couple of months ago that they would start another airline ..... Chris

And as far as I understood their intentions were far ahead of 28 October. But what we'll see will be clear marks.

[EBBR]

Through my contacts I have heard that not all Birdy-pilots will be hired, that SN intends mixed flying (319+330)

[L-1011]

My 2 cents:

Through my contacts I have heard that not all Birdy-pilots will be hired, that SN intends mixed flying (319+330)

Mixed flying would indeed augment profitability of the company. This would indicate that they will align the Birdy contracts on previous SN ones (so that they are all equal if they all have to fly mixed...)

ciao,
TriStar

[lumumba]

Hi everybody.
Looks like they gooing to change the interior of threre A330 in February.Because the 2 first week there a lot of flight's deletet.
regards
Patrice

[sn26567]

Looks like they're going to change the interior of the A330 in February.

Very much needed to keep up with the competition...

[Bruspotter]

Hi all!!!

Really too bad that a lot of 330 flights are chanecelled!
Sounds so weard. I sounds almost like new troubles!

Hope they find something about that soon,and that
even Birdy would start a new airline instead of SN stopping it's
long-haul flights,either Birdy takes over SN's flights.


Hope the solution will be find soon.

Regards: Yannick

[Avro]

Hope they find something about that soon,and that
even Birdy would start a new airline instead of SN stopping it's
long-haul flights,either Birdy takes over SN's flights.

I don't really get your point, but SN will be continuing the flights with the 3 A330 to Africa. The reason behind the cancellation of those flights is due to the refurbishment of the A330's.

Chris

[rwy25r]

For those interested

1. all but one of the Birdy A330 pilots have been offered a contract with SNBA, a handful of them have not taken up the opportunity, preferring to fly elsewhere and make a better career
2. of the administrative staff of Birdy, only three have been offered a contract. All three have accepted. Most of the others will leave aviation, which is in dire straits again in Belgium;
3. there is no follow up on Birdy, there are no other plans. This is a chapter in Belgian aviation that will be closed for good on October 27th

Contrary to what many 'experts' on this forum pretend, it is extremely hard these days to make a profit running an airline (unless you have a profitable niche or you have a dominant position), and it is better to know when to stop than to lose buckets full of money...

Sorry, but these are the facts

rwy25r

[sn26567]

Thanks for clear and final explanation, rwy25r. That says it all. I hope that the 'experts' of this forum will learn the lesson (no bad intention implied here...).

[SN30952]

Here is how it began in 2002:
SABENA SA: Needs $112 Million to Keep Flying
All it needs to turnaround ailing Belgian carrier Sabena SA is BEF5 billion ($112 million) then said Victor Hasson, CEO of bankrupt City Bird. Hasson made the foregoing prognosis along with his announcement that he and George Gutelman were ready to invest BEF1 billion ($22 million) in a "new Sabena."
He suggested that all outstanding debts, except to the government, be converted into shares of a holding company composed of two airline activities.
These two airline activities would be composed of a regional network based on the present activities of subsidiary Delta Air Transport and a restricted middle-distance network composed of 8 planes serving 8 destinations.
Hasson projected the new Sabena to carry 4 million passengers a year and employ 2,500 workers. On the other hand, he saw the "new Delta Air Transport" to fly 2.5 million passengers a year, utilizing 25-30 planes.
Hasson also envisioned the company to be listed on a stock exchange. However, he said, more partners must be enticed to help the company in order to fully succeed.
and
SN Brussels Airlines, the successor to the failed national airline Sabena was to launch services to Africa on April 26, 2002. Three Airbus A330-300 would be phased into the operation. The first destinations to be served were: Entebbe/Nairobi (three times a week); Kigali/Nairobi (twice a week), Kinshasa (3 times/week), Dakar /Banjul (3 times/week); Conakry/Monrovia (twice a week.) To operate the flights, SN Brussels Airlines signed a letter of intent for a "wet lease" contract with a new Belgian airline that was created by G. Gutelman and V. Hasson. The operation was conditional on all parties getting the necessary authorizations and Board approvals. The launch of African operations would create employment opportunities for about 200 people in Belgium and 150 in Africa, the carrier said. Two types of classes would be available - Business Class with 42 seats and a 62-inch pitch, Economy class with 222 seats and a 31 to 33-inch seat pitch. The planes would also allow the transport of cargo. On a yearly basis, about 40.000 tons of cargo capacity would be available between Europe and Africa. The company to be created by MM. Gutelman and Hasson would put the three airplanes and cockpit crew at SN Brussels Airlines disposal. SN Brussels Airlines would operate the flights and would be responsible for all commercial, network, marketing, quality and product aspects. The three planes would bear the SN Brussels Airlines identity. The livery and interior of the planes would be adapted to the new colours and logos of the company. The agreement signed with MM. Gutelman and Hasson would allow to provide employment to 50 Belgian pilots who would be hired by MM Gutelman and Hasson's new airline. Service on board would be ensured by SN Brussels Airlines cabin personnel. About 150 ex-Sabena cabin crewmembers would be offered employment. In Africa, SN Brussels Airlines would hire some 150 staff, mostly ex-Sabena. The launching of long-haul flights would also allow to create additional jobs for ground personnel at Brussels Airport. The first plane to carry the new SN Brussels Airlines brand and logo was to be ready by end February 2002.

Thanks for clear and final explanation, rwy25r. That says it all. I hope that the 'experts' of this forum will learn the lesson (no bad intention implied here...).

3) What are the intentions of Victor Hasson and George Gutelman after 28 October?

As far as I know they mentioned on TV a couple of months ago that they would start another airline ..... Chris

And as far as I understood their intentions were far ahead of 28 October. But what we'll see will be clear marks.

And they lived happily (together) ever after....

In Sobelair, miskleun van Brusselse incest - Crash van een dinosaurus Erik Bruyland erik.bruyland@trends.be wrote
In een aantal gevallen kwam daar nog een Congolees (Zaïrees) toetje bovenop, onder meer voor Vastapane zelf en voor dat andere Brusselse duo, Victor Hasson en Georges Gutelman (ex-CityBird en Trans European Airways), of voor George Forrest (ex-Shabair).

Het VdB-tijdperk is afgesloten, maar niet helemaal uitgedoofd. Waarom bijvoorbeeld gebeurt er meer dan een jaar na zijn inverdenkingstelling door onderzoeksrechter Jean-Claude Van Espen niets meer met het dossier-Pierre Salik? Of met de affaire van een Brussels rechter-commissaris die wordt verdacht van passieve corruptie door diezelfde Salik?"

Did Erik Bruyland follow up on that?
Gutelman, ex-patron de City Bird, placé sous mandat d'arrêt dans le cadre de "ses anciennes activités".

Je n'ai jamais eu beaucoup confiance en Georges Gutelman, que j'ai connu comme étudiant à Liège.......
Victor Hasson, que j'ai aussi rencontré personnelmlement, était beaucoup plus fiable.

L'affaire relative à la faillite de TEA a déjà fait l'objet d'un procès à Liège. Gutelman & Cie y ont bénéficié d'un non-lieu par manque de preuves et fautes de procédures dans l'enquête.
Le passé de Gutelman le rattrape, Thu Feb 19, 2004
Georges Gutelman a été remis en liberté, et sans condition. Fri Feb 20, 2004.
Victor Hasson et Georges Gutelman, victimes de propos antisémites 14/01/2004
Nous manifestons à Victor Hasson et Georges Gutelman notre plus vive solidarité et ne manquerons pas de donner à cette affaire la suite qu’elle mérite. Pour le Conseil d’Administration du CCLJ Michèle Szwarcburt, Présidente...
Never heard a word from that lobby about that later?

Note:
Les Managers de l'Année depuis 1985:
• 1985: Albert Frère • 1986: Lionel Van den Bossche • 1987: Philippe Bodson • 1988: Philippe Delaunois • 1989:Georges Gutelman • 1990: Gui de Vaucleroy • 1991: Daniel Janssen • 1992: Michel Petit • 1993:Maurice Lippens • 1994: Jean Galler • 1995: Jean-Claude Logé • 1996: Jean Stephenne • 1997: Pierre Mottet/Yves Jongen• 1998:George Jacobs • 1999: Pierre- Olivier Beckers • 2000: Christian Jacqmin • 2001: Pierre de Muelenaere • 2002: Luc Willame
Remember Rob Kuijpers (SN Brussels Airlines) was on the candidates list in 2003. (of werd dat toen de koffiemadam van Sara Lee/DE zie Trends)