Air Belgium in 2018

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

SkyTourist wrote: 16 Mar 2018, 18:03 Back on topic: is anything known about the crew composition? When serving primarily Chinese customers, one can imagine that a substantial part of the flight attendants will have to master Cantonese or Mandarin. The selection criteria on their website (which still has a predominantly caucasian touch and feel) state: "You are fluent in spoken and written English, Dutch and French OR you are fluent in spoken English and Mandarin OR English and Cantonese".
They went to Hong Kong recently to hire a lot of people. No worry: some of the crew know mandarin and/or Cantonese.
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Flanker3
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Flanker3 »

About the flag, get over it, it looks great.

About the routes and time frame, I have doubts that they can launch that soon without a major negative impact.
As said earlier by others, regardless of the sales potential and the demand from a tour operator, they can t switch bookings overnight.
Sure, options are taken but they usually have to be converted by 1 month prior to departure date.
It s impossible to switch everything within a month.

I hope for them that they have already secured bookings for a launch date in April.

No matter what they do, more likely than not, the first week of each route will see outbound flights flying empty with millions being burned.
So I don't understand that with an AOC secured, there isn't an active online sales platform yet. Ideally, it should have been on standby mode and launched simultaneously with the AOC.

Second thing that I'm curious about is whether they have secured the green light from Russia and the CAAC.

Third thing is that I haven't seen an active marketing campaign, anywhere in Belgium. As much as tour operators can get volumes, they are at best break-even seat fillers, not profit centers. O&D demand is the biggest profit center, yet no visible efforts are made to attract this segment yet.

Fourth thing is the fact that a decent amount of cabin volume is reserved for premium demand. Not exactly a tour operator specialty.

Fifth aspect is that I don't see the secondary Chinese cities mentioned as viable routes for a start-up.
It takes a lot of empty seats before they become self-sustaining, long before they become profitable.

After the initial excitement, the tour operator might find itself realizing that it costs more to run their own airline than to buy seats on existing airlines...
To prevent that, they need to establish themselves as an airline first to gain critical mass ASAP and you can only do that by launching mainline routes like TYO, SIN, MNL, TPE, where there is little competition and a viable demand. PEK and PVG are too much of a challenge with Hainan competition Imo.
HKG would have worked but with CX launching soon, it's too much of a challenge.

As for other aspects, I think that they could succeed if they can get feed asap. Their own feed to key destinations would be viable too.

I hope that they do succeed. LH has impeded SN from growing into Asia to protect their own selfish interests. Now the market is going to get flooded with 1000 additional seats per day each way on Europe-China and it will definitely have a negative impact on LH.
The ME3 should also feel the impact of this.

asianbaba1
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by asianbaba1 »

sn26567 wrote: 16 Mar 2018, 23:16
SkyTourist wrote: 16 Mar 2018, 18:03 Back on topic: is anything known about the crew composition? When serving primarily Chinese customers, one can imagine that a substantial part of the flight attendants will have to master Cantonese or Mandarin. The selection criteria on their website (which still has a predominantly caucasian touch and feel) state: "You are fluent in spoken and written English, Dutch and French OR you are fluent in spoken English and Mandarin OR English and Cantonese".
They went to Hong Kong recently to hire a lot of people. No worry: some of the crew know mandarin and/or Cantonese.


Yeah, They went to Hong Kong to recruit cabin crew in Nov,2017, However, neither of the them receive update From Air Belgium about any further steps like training or body check. And it has been like 4 months.

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

Interview of Niky Terzakis on RTBF La Une at 13:00 today

http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=9869460

One excerpt:

"The sales platform has been ready for two weeks, but we don't put it online before the exact dates of the flights are known; there are still a few details to be finalised."
André
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nordikcam
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 17:48 Interview of Niky Terzakis on RTBF La Une at 13:00 today

http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=9869460

One excerpt:

"The sales platform has been ready for two weeks, but we don't put it online before the exact dates of the flights are known; there are still a few details to be finalised."
The details in which the devil often nests...

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by airtrainer »

Saw it for real today, really beautiful aircraft :D
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Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 17:48 Interview of Niky Terzakis on RTBF La Une at 13:00 today

http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=9869460

One excerpt:

"The sales platform has been ready for two weeks, but we don't put it online before the exact dates of the flights are known; there are still a few details to be finalised."
He also said that the first flight should be in the second fortnight of April.

Fingers crossed.

H.A.

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

Among the problems that still need to be ironed out: the overfly rights over 13 countries, including the Russian Federation with which the bilateral relations are not at their best for the moment...
André
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domtom
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by domtom »

Hi,

1. Isn't AB bleeding money parking their planes like that? I assume these are leased birds?

2. I too saw it in the flesh yesterday. The second, all white A340 is parked closer to threshold of 07L. When will that one be stickered?

Thanks

MathijsH
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by MathijsH »

sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 23:03 Among the problems that still need to be ironed out: the overfly rights over 13 countries, including the Russian Federation with which the bilateral relations are not at their best for the moment...
Wasn't there a huge issue for Brussels Airlines too with overfly rights over Russia because of old Sabena debts to an extent they can't even codeshare anymore on new flights that go over Russia? Would this be the case for all Belgian companies?

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by nordikcam »

MathijsH wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 10:00
sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 23:03 Among the problems that still need to be ironed out: the overfly rights over 13 countries, including the Russian Federation with which the bilateral relations are not at their best for the moment...
Wasn't there a huge issue for Brussels Airlines too with overfly rights over Russia because of old Sabena debts to an extent they can't even codeshare anymore on new flights that go over Russia? Would this be the case for all Belgian companies?
The problem of overflight rights is not the consequence I think of Sabena's debts but the result of the sanctions taken by the EU in 2014 against Russia following the annexation of Crimea ... followed by the Russian embargo on the european, american and australian products etc ... SN is in code share with HU on Beijing (granted before the annexation of Crimea) but more on Shanghai (same company).
So I guess it will be the same for Air Belgium...

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 17:48 Interview of Niky Terzakis on RTBF La Une at 13:00 today
http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=9869460
One excerpt: "The sales platform has been ready for two weeks, but we don't put it online before the exact dates of the flights are known; there are still a few details to be finalised."
They should already put their flight schedule online, even when dep and arr times will change afterwards. Passengers will then keep them in mind as possible carrier. That way, some will postpone their booking with another airline till the AB tariffs are known.

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Passenger wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 11:24
sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 17:48 Interview of Niky Terzakis on RTBF La Une at 13:00 today
http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=9869460
One excerpt: "The sales platform has been ready for two weeks, but we don't put it online before the exact dates of the flights are known; there are still a few details to be finalised."
They should already put their flight schedule online, even when dep and arr times will change afterwards. Passengers will then keep them in mind as possible carrier. That way, some will postpone their booking with another airline till the AB tariffs are known.
Most of the AB passengers will come from Hongkong and greater China, visiting Europe and organised by TO U-Tour, their shareholder. So IMO 90 to 95 pct will be Chinese citizens.

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sn26567
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sn26567 »

domtom wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 09:49
1. Isn't AB bleeding money parking their planes like that? I assume these are leased birds?
The aircraft belong to Airbus, which has no other use for them. I guess that Air Belgium has got a good deal from Airbus that takes this fact into account.
André
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Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Passenger »

Boeing767copilot wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 11:32
Passenger wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 11:24
sn26567 wrote: 17 Mar 2018, 17:48 Interview of Niky Terzakis on RTBF La Une at 13:00 today
http://www.rtbf.be/info/economie/detail ... id=9869460
One excerpt: "The sales platform has been ready for two weeks, but we don't put it online before the exact dates of the flights are known; there are still a few details to be finalised."
They should already put their flight schedule online, even when dep and arr times will change afterwards. Passengers will then keep them in mind as possible carrier. That way, some will postpone their booking with another airline till the AB tariffs are known.
Most of the AB passengers will come from Hongkong and greater China, visiting Europe and organised by TO U-Tour, their shareholder. So IMO 90 to 95 pct will be Chinese citizens.
Is that the same U-Tour that will start flying China-LGG-China as from end of April 2018?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62809#p361562

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by sean1982 »

sn26567 wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 12:28
domtom wrote: 18 Mar 2018, 09:49
1. Isn't AB bleeding money parking their planes like that? I assume these are leased birds?
The aircraft belong to Airbus, which has no other use for them. I guess that Air Belgium has got a good deal from Airbus that takes this fact into account.
For unpopular airframes in some cases you only pay the lease when you fly it. This might be the case here

Desert Rat
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Desert Rat »

I really doubt that Airbus Asset management would charge just by the FH flown.
I guess ABA got a good deal and some support package like training or discount on technical documentation package.

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Atlantis »

If Air Belgium is partially owned by U-Tour and if they are so sure that with each flight they can fill the plane for 90%, why they are afraid of competition with Hainan and Cathay??? If they have the "feeder" of their own tourists why they choose then a secondairy airport like CRL instead of an airport like BRU who is really in the middle?
Are their costs so tight? Or what is behind it.

If you really think logically about it and you know that they for sure can fill the plane, why they make is more difficult for them?

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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by Acid-drop »

In the middle of what ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

flightlover
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Re: Air Belgium in 2018

Post by flightlover »

Atlantis wrote: 19 Mar 2018, 21:58 If Air Belgium is partially owned by U-Tour and if they are so sure that with each flight they can fill the plane for 90%, why they are afraid of competition with Hainan and Cathay??? If they have the "feeder" of their own tourists why they choose then a secondairy airport like CRL instead of an airport like BRU who is really in the middle?
Are their costs so tight? Or what is behind it.

If you really think logically about it and you know that they for sure can fill the plane, why they make is more difficult for them?
Who is one off the EU shareholders? That is the reason why they are flying from CRL. Might as well be the reason why they put the red first iso the black.

I know the answer is quite political and polarizing but it would explain a lot.

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