Walloon Minister of Airports Jean-Luc Crucke is unhappy about the Charleroi situation: too many ATC restrictions

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 31 Dec 2017, 17:32

Not a very happy end for 2017 !

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 05 Jan 2018, 21:07

2018 doesn't start better

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 16 Jan 2018, 11:08

Belgocontrol wants to open up its capital to regional public shareholders

https://www.lecho.be/entreprises/aviati ... ux/9972308

https://www.tijd.be/nieuws/archief/Luch ... 1516097073

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 24 Feb 2018, 17:29

Jean-Luc Crucke, minister responsible for Walloon Airports, is mad at Belgocontrol : too many restrictions at CRL due to ATC staff shortage.
He's studying the possibility to find a foreign ANSP for walloon airports !

https://www.lecho.be/actualite/archive/ ... ts/9986074

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 24 Feb 2018, 18:05

A most interesting evolution! I can only wish for success, if only to open up a few eyes in Brussels. Still, it will not be easy, nor quick: the process of approving/certifying "third party" ANSP's remains to be defined, and then it must be approved, and then it must be applied to the candidate(s) - if any... And one may be very sure that "the powers that be" will more than ever do their utmost to keep their current monopoly, for as long as ever they can manage.

Post by **sn26567** » 24 Feb 2018, 23:40

SR20 wrote: ↑24 Feb 2018, 17:29 Jean-Luc Crucke, minister responsible for Walloon Airports, is mad at Belgocontrol : too many restrictions at CRL due to ATC staff shortage.
He's studying the possibility to find a foreign ANSP for walloon airports !

https://www.lecho.be/actualite/archive/ ... ts/9986074

Alain Kniebs, the spokesman of Belgocontrol, was interviewed by RTBF in Charleroi Airport. He was not particularly afraid for the future, saying that new controllers were being hired for CRL, but their training would take two years...

DIBO · Post by **DIBO** » 25 Feb 2018, 11:29

sn26567 wrote: ↑24 Feb 2018, 23:40He was not particularly afraid for the future,....

that is exactly part of the problem

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 25 Feb 2018, 11:43

... which corresponds to the much wanted opening of certain eyes I referred to earlier ...

If additional controllers are needed now, and their training takes two years (which seems _very_ long to me, even NMBS/SNCB can complete a train driver's training in 18 months and they were never famous for speed

) then they should have been recruited two years ago, not today. Who said "gouverner c'est prévoir"

?

Post by **KriVa** » 25 Feb 2018, 11:48

People were recruited two years ago. I know, because I was part of that group.
However, training isn't easy, and none of the first group made it to CRL, sadly.
To give you an exact duration, my training took a year and eleven months from the time I entered the company until the time I was certified to work alone. So yes, two years is just about correct.

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 25 Feb 2018, 12:36

@KriVa, thanks for (as always!) discussing politely and positively. That said: I am not stating nothing has been done, things are not THAT bad. I do state not enough has been done. And it is so disappointing that the people who failed - at least partly - always have an excuse. So much like that old bastion of old government enterprises, the Belgian State Railways NMBS/SNCB. Remember that Pano reportage a couple of days ago? It seems obvious to me that Belgocontrol and the BdL/DGAC suffer from the exact same issues as mentioned there.

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 25 Feb 2018, 13:45

The problem is that in the last 10 years, very few french speaking candidates were recruited. It looks like they were struggling going through the recruitment process !

That's what explains the lack of controllers at CRL and LGG. And by the way you can count on your fingers the amount of french speaking controllers at BRU tower.

Belgocontrol even tried to man Walloon towers with dutch speaking people, but all candidates encountered problems with the french language and were eventually transfered to BRU, ANR or OST.

Despite numerous requests from Walloon controllers, Belgocontrol always rejected the idea of a recruitment targetting only french speaking people. If newspaper "L'Echo" is true, it looks like they changed their mind !

sean1982 · Post by **sean1982** » 25 Feb 2018, 14:05

The international accepted aviation language is english, why does everything in this miserable country revolve around language ... even When it shouldnt be an issue!?

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 25 Feb 2018, 14:29

sean1982 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2018, 14:05 The international accepted aviation language is english, why does everything in this miserable country revolve around language ... even When it shouldnt be an issue!?

Of course aviation language is english. But in a control tower you have contact with a lot of third party people (like outside emergency services, local civil engineering, neighbours, ...) and most of them don't speak english !

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 25 Feb 2018, 16:44

Well thats the problem then.
Everybody should speak english. Period.
Keep the dialects for home.
Its very narrow minded, in modern europe, to hire only people with the local dialect skills

Post by **KriVa** » 25 Feb 2018, 17:09

I don't know if I really can expand on the reasons why, but it doesn't work that way. There are a LOT of coordination partners who don't speak English, but are involved in the daily operations, be it at LGG, CRL, BRU, ANR or OST.
Requiring everybody to speak English simply isn't a realistic option.
So yes, it is very much an issue.
For some reason, a lot fewer French speaking candidates make it through the selections as well.

Post by **sn26567** » 25 Feb 2018, 17:49

SR20 wrote: ↑25 Feb 2018, 13:45 The problem is that in the last 10 years, very few French-speaking candidates were recruited. It looks like they were struggling to go through the recruitment process!

...

Despite numerous requests from Walloon controllers, Belgocontrol always rejected the idea of a recruitment targetting only French-speaking people. If newspaper "L'Echo" is true, it looks like they changed their mind!

Wouldn't it be easier to find motivated French-speaking candidates if the stupid age limit (25!) was lifted?

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 25 Feb 2018, 17:50

Acid-drop wrote: ↑25 Feb 2018, 16:44 Well thats the problem then.
Everybody should speak english. Period.
Keep the dialects for home.
Its very narrow minded, in modern europe, to hire only people with the local dialect skills

Hm, do I detect a certain degree of sarcasm here? Of course "Flemish" is only a despicable dialect

but to classify French as a dialect might not be universally acknowledged...

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 25 Feb 2018, 18:09

Can't say its universally known either. Nor accepted.
So its close to useless, especially in the aviation world.

There are a LOT of coordination partners who don't speak English, but are involved in the daily operations, be it at LGG, CRL, BRU, ANR or OST.
Requiring everybody to speak English simply isn't a realistic option.

Is it more realistic to ask 'a european' to speak one of our local dialect ?
Would a guy from limburg understand a fireman from bruges anyway ? Its not even sure
What if the fireman is from slovakia, is he a bad fireman ?
How is all this mess tested ?

Post by **KriVa** » 25 Feb 2018, 18:19

Except, it's not. It's unrealistic to expect all coordination partners to speak English in places like ANR, CRL, LGG or OST. Even in BRU, we often need a "plain text" explanation of an issue in the local language in order to be able to understand exactly what the issue/problem is.

And before this gets dragged into a silly debate about North vs. South or whatever... AMS is exactly the same. If controllers need a wind check at a certain altitude, or a check on ceiling/visibility/approach lighting, who do you think they'll ask? I'll give you a hint... The callsigns start with "K".
Who do you think the controllers in Paris will ask? Or at Heathrow?
Contrary to what may be believed, the local language is not useless, as long as its place is respected (never for clearances or instructions, for example...)

SR20 · Post by **SR20** » 25 Feb 2018, 18:44

To give only one example : every control tower in Belgium has a "nood plan/plan d'urgence" where coordination has to be made with outside emergency services (100/112 + neighbouring stations)
One can easily imagine the consequences if the 2 interlocutors are unable to understand each other !

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