DHL expansion?

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 21 Oct 2004, 19:40

Tonight DHL employees will try to keep as much DHL planes on the ground. I really understand the frustration of the employees but is there no other solution. In my eyes it is not the faulth of the DHL management but the faulth of the government. So hurting the business of DHL is no solution.

Also I saw an interview on het 'TV1 journaal' a couple of minutes ago. Verhofstadt really gave me the feeling that he doesn't see his error. Something is wrong with the way politics is done in Belgium.

Also what really irritated me was the interview with a noise activist. She says the airport has to build down night flights until zero. Not right away but in time. She also said that DHL employees will find a job, even in Zaventem because a lot of companies think Zaventem is attractive. Well my idea of this was, did she think about the fact that maybe these companies think that Zaventem is this attractive because DHL is situated in Zaventem? These people really should start thinking a little bit. How can or little airport survive if you will not allow any night flight?

Also another interview gave an interesting point. That there should be a law or regulation about the expansion of night flights at our airport. Because like it is right now the companies are a play ball for the government. If there would be any regulation it would not have ended this way and also DHL would have known what to expect. Also for other cargo companies who are interested in coming to Zaventem this will give them some security. Like it is now, a company doesn't have any security about the future.

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 21 Oct 2004, 19:59

Also for other cargo companies who are interested in coming to Zaventem this will give them some security

I think you're dreaming here... 8O
Many companies will leave BRU the coming years... ("Kanaal-Z").

This morning the government said it would look for an alternative to find new companies for BRU.
Lets see how much time they need to forget this statement.
I think 3 or 4 weeks... and they'll forgotten everything...

sad sad Belgium...

The world is laughing with us.

ATC

shock · Post by **shock** » 21 Oct 2004, 20:18

I can readily understand how the DHL BRU Hub employees feel, and there are few other ways to express their disgust at the siuation open to them, which does not stop me wishing that cooler heads had prevailed.

DHL is a bit of a brotherhood and I have rarely found an employee who is not fully proud of providing the service that it provides, and going the extra mile themselves to do just that.

The anguish felt though must be distinguished from support for politics in Belgium, which frankly baffle me. How the Government could not come up with options to remain at least in Belgium, is staggering incompetency on their part.

There was only one agenda in this decision making process: Re-election.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 21 Oct 2004, 20:47

First of all I would like to say to all DHL and EAT employees that I really feel sorry for them.

As Andries already told I'm also ashamed of being Belgian tonight

.
Those politicans never really tried to convince DHL to stay in Belgium and here's the result.

Prior to 2008, EAT would plan to open a new branch office at the location eventually chosen for DHL's intended new intercontinental hub. This would be necessary to support the planned re-organization whereby EAT would need to relocate a number of functions to the new intercontinental hub that currently are based in Brussels.

Let's hope that many of the sacked EAT emloyees will be able to work for the 'new' branch of EAT then..

On a sidenote: Will SQ still be interested of making BRU one of its big Cargo hubs now that DHL will leave BRU in 2008 with its hub operations ? Or isn't SQ working in colaboration with DHL ?

Chris

Post by **Bruspotter** » 21 Oct 2004, 21:00

Hi folks.

Tonight another sad day in the Belgium aviation-history.

My sincere condolences(correct???)to all the DHL employers.
And very sad news for BIAC too,and ofcourse also for us spotters.
As today it has been officially that DHL will not expand,and even
reduce the nightflights at BRU in approx. 2 years.

As replacement of DHL @BRU i already told earlier that Federal
Express might come back at BRU.But i banned that idea since
the MD-11F can not anymore fly at night @BRU,and Federal Express
its main long-haul airplane is the MD-11F,and Fedex is just as DHL
a NIGHT OPERATOR. What's left than; TNT??? now way because
they also have A300's and those are also hated at BRU.
And by the way they already have a hub at Liège that is cheaper.
So...what is there actually left for BRU???

Tip; the next 2 years you go spotting @BRU,you must fully
profit to see a DHL in the day at Brussels,because within 2 years
the DHL day-arrivals will be totally disappeared.

In every case: to be continued.

Regards: Yannick

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 21 Oct 2004, 21:04

Alltough "Luchtzak" isn't a political forum I think in this case we can make a little exception...

The Belgium governments and their "bedtime stories".

Verhofstadt, Belgium Prime Minister
"A year ago...
DHL must expand in Belgium. If not in BRU we will build a new airport ! We can not permit us the lose such an important logistic company. Belgium is the heart of Europe. "
Thank you "Guy" for this nice words...
You've done a good job. :dammit:

Leterme, Flemish Prime Minister
"A few weeks ago... DHL must expand. I'm convinced we can find a solution to let DHL grow in BRU. DHL leaving BRU isn't an option.
Thank you "Yves" for these nice words...
You've done a good job. :dammit:

"Today, we (the governments

) blame DHL because
a) we (the governments) made a promise DHL could expand but after a year we've forgotten everything.
b) DHL can't replace the MD11's by aircraft that don't exist for the moment.
c) DHL haven't been honest with us... by telling us the want to make BRU their capital european hub and give us thousands of jobs extra...

why..... please tell me why...

ATC

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 21 Oct 2004, 21:21

ATC wrote:why..... please tell me why...

ATC

"Electoral reasons of the ruling politcal partys"

rwy25r · Post by **rwy25r** » 21 Oct 2004, 21:57

Brussels the center of Europe ? Stop dreaming, that center moved about 1500km east on May the 1st ...

EBBR · Post by **EBBR** » 21 Oct 2004, 22:25

luchtzak wrote:I thought that Verhofstadt and his bunch where looking for more jobs, I was just thinking about their recent election-campaign (Guy zoekt werk)

Yes, Verhofstadt has found new jobs..... for Leipzig Germany!!!!!!

Dude320 · Post by **Dude320** » 21 Oct 2004, 23:20

I find it too easy to put it all in the government shoes...

I am convinced that DHL made this decision already since Deutsche Post joined.

They changed the livery to Yellow (nice one to be honest).

Deutsche Post is also Yellow.

If you look at Europe now, it is maybe strange to say but

BRUSSELS IS NOT THE HEART OF EUROPE anymore
(reference Sabena : Flying from the heart of Europe...)

To be honest, other countries are more and more central located in Europe then Belgium is right now.

DHL Management is mainly THE reason of another reloaction of activity.

Pitty to see again a great loss (directly + indrectly) of jobs in EBBR.

I really feel sorry for so many Aviation lovers (crew, engineers, ...) who go through this.

All the best in this difficult times.

Rgds,

NeilArmstrong · Post by **NeilArmstrong** » 22 Oct 2004, 03:15

I put my money on Leipzig!
DHL flights are all avoiding BRU at the moment because of the industrial actions!,more than 20 A/C got stuck in BRU last night ,some where able to leave in the daytime and will not return till all has returned to normal!
I think the BRU DHL staff are hurting there case ,protesting another night!
It has been proven in the past that almost all the freight can be handled by other hubs (CDG,CGN,EMA,BGY) dont give management a reason to leave BRU even sooner!
I still dont know what all the fuss about the MD11 is about, it's quieter that the B7474 and doesnt have restrictions at most airports.
It has only been 1.5 years that i flew the 727 on a daily basis into BRU ,now that was noisy ,and that is why the 757 is flying there now!
Before you know it ,the goverment will require the purchase of new aircarft on a yearly basis just to keep up with the ever changing rules they make.

Neil

ericksson · Post by **ericksson** » 22 Oct 2004, 08:02

I'm new to this website I like very much. I work for DHL Express at our Los Angeles Gateway Hub. ( last dhl hub on the west cost) Here in the states has been a hell. with airborne express and dhl. DHL only has three hubs which are still 100% dhl. LAX,JFK,MIA. SFO is no longer under dhl and is now 100% staff by Airborne (ABX) And I was told that BRU might be cutting some jobs. so if anyone wants to work in los angeles transfer now we have alot of opening in ramp operations A300, DC-9, B727. and also opening a new operations in ONT close to maybe 500 to 1000 new jobs.

HERE AT LAX-GW start pay is in USD $16.70 per hour. Fulltime, 7 flotter days A year, 3 week paid vacations, 6 days sick pay. plus Teamsters Local 986!

www.dhl-usa.com

Post by **sn26567** » 22 Oct 2004, 10:53

Lyulka wrote:Leipzig is one of the worst regions in Germany whan talking about jobs.

Jobless rate in Leipzig: 20%. In Brussels: 20% as well!

Why did the Belgian and the Brussels regional governments apply the same pressure as the Saxony politicians?

This being said, I think now that Vatry has more chances than Leipzig. Leipzig is too far East for intercontinental operations. One more hour flight for the 4 daily (or rather nightly) transatlantic flights foreseen in 2012 would add tremendous costs (millions of $ yearly) to the operation, more than the subsidy that DHL would get from Leipzig.

Vatry is also in the golden triangle (Ruhr, Benelux, North of France) where most customers are located.

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 22 Oct 2004, 13:03

I looked at pictures of Vatry. Really it is in the middle of nowhere. At least there DHL will not have to be afraid of complaining neighbours and I'm sure that this airport would be really happy to welcome DHL to operate from there. This would be a great economical boost for this region in France.

I'm only wondering, how much longer is the flight then if you come from the USA? One hour or two? I guess this is also important for DHL and they will look at it.

What a pitty, really I can't believe what just happened in Belgium. Bye bye boost of economical profit in Brussels. :wave:

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 22 Oct 2004, 13:18

Today I found this on the internet, a commercial video of DHL in the USA:

http://www.newdhl.com/advertising/tv/tv.asp?id=1

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 22 Oct 2004, 13:44

Guys,

just to put the flightime thing into perspective, it does not amount to 1 or 2 hours extra flying, see below for teh great circle distance from

JFK to BRU 3667 miles
JFK to LEJ 3961 miles (= 294 mile further than BRU)
JFK to Vatry 3710 (43 miles greater than BRU)

Dayton to BRU 4116 miles
Dayton to LEJ 4393 miles (= 277 miles further than BRU)
Dayton to Vatry 4172 mile (= 56 mile further than BRU)

this does not take into account North Atlantic flight tracks or winds of course which wil actually mak ethe distance shorther, but for all three. And given that DHL will not have to use Belgian airspace so much, their savings will be huge as Belgium has one of the most expensive EnRoute charges in Europe !!!!!! saving €€€€€ = making $$$$$$$

Rgds
Tony

TCAS_climb · Post by **TCAS_climb** » 23 Oct 2004, 20:58

Did you notice that the French-speaking newspaper Le Soir makes a little poll on its website (www.lesoir.be) ? Have you seen the results ? I must admit I was quite surprised by the second most frequent answer !

You have to finish the following sentence: "DHL will not grow in Brussels, it's...

- too bad for employment 27%
- good riddance ! 26%
- DHL's fault 17%
- Verhofstadt's mistake 15%
- Brussels' fault 9%
- doesn't concern me 5%

Amazing
8O

Post by **sn26567** » 24 Oct 2004, 13:28

TCAS_climb wrote:You have to finish the following sentence: "DHL will not grow in Brussels, it's...

- too bad for employment 27%
- good riddance ! 26%

It just shows that there are more people inconvenienced by DHL than people having a job thanks to DHL.

Flybe · Post by **Flybe** » 24 Oct 2004, 15:44

Le Soir makes a little poll on its website

I don't think it is hardly a representative statistic sample from the Belgian population. Therefore, the poll is off course very nice, but doesn't show much, if not nothing at all. Having a statistical good "poll" isn't as easy as putting it on a website 8)

Greets,

Pieter

shock · Post by **shock** » 25 Oct 2004, 18:56

Well that was a tough few days but the network seemed to get through it with follow on effects still being cleared up around the European Hubs. IN fact, this could well be a set piece for MBA students.

Traditionally, the needs of the collective should outweigh the needs of the organisation, but the reverse seems to have been true and it seems the co-operation from the sort to management surpassed that of even our own expectations. In short, from Crews (who responded magnificently) to loaders, every worked their a$$ off to minimise the disruption (whilst, I would have to say, having some broad sympathy with the reasons for the strike in the first place). Academically, most strange.

As for the new Hub...the inside word is that it is very, very inside!