DHL expansion?

TCAS_climb · Post by **TCAS_climb** » 21 Oct 2004, 07:59

Any clear idea of what will happen to the EAT flight crews ?

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 21 Oct 2004, 08:06

After Sabena, CityBird, Sobelair ......
this is again a very sad day for aviation !!!!!

Thousands of people will lose their job...

"thank you belgium"

It seems like the belgium government(s) don't want to see any aviation in Belgium. Today and the coming days there will be a "who's to blame-game" between DHL and the government(s). I blame the government(s), they asked DHL something impossible... you can't replace your aircraft by silent aircraft that don't exist for the moment.

Again, Zaventem will become one step closer to a regional airport...

I'm very very disappointed...

ATC

Post by **sn26567** » 21 Oct 2004, 09:01

TCAS_climb wrote:Any clear idea of what will happen to the EAT flight crews ?

Two hundred jobs to go at EAT.

For further information, look what I wrote in Luchtzak Latest News: https://www.aviation24.be/article6199.html

Thank you, Messrs. Verhofstadt (federal), Leterme (Flemish) and Picqué (Brussels). Their conjugated efforts have pushed DHL to the door. Aggravating circumstance for Verhofstadt: he already presided over the demise of Sabena!

Clearly these governments of Belgium do not believe in aviation. Asking the impossible from DHL was not realistic. DHL is a commercial company that must look at its bottom line. If the conditions are not right in Belgium, there are a lot of other places in Europe that will welcome DHL and its jobs.

How can you promote 200,000 new jobs in Belgium if you fail to protect the existing jobs?

Shame on you, Messrs. Verhofstadt, Leterme and Picqué.

jake99 · Post by **jake99** » 21 Oct 2004, 10:16

This is what the unions told us tonight:
(these are rounded numbers)
they are speaking of a loss of about 70 %

DHL zaventem: loss of 1200
EAT : the unions saying that there are 5 a 600 people working there and that there will be also a loss of 50-70 %.

What i hear is that all flightcrews can stay.

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 21 Oct 2004, 11:11

Grrrrr, I hate those darn politics. My uncle, who is a retired history-teacher said once, I was paid to teach good lessons to my students, not to be popular. This is something that maybe could apply for politicians as well, but the big flaw of democracy is that you need to be popular to be re-elected. And it is the truth that hurts, and that are things people don't want to hear. Like that those "noisy planes" are providing jobs and a positive boost to the (local-) economy. So a politician never touches that subject, or tries to get around it. And the unions don't help either, they only try to please themselves and their members, and don't look into the economy as a whole, with often negative effects, like jobs being moved to a place where manpower is cheaper.

Left-wing or right-wing, honest politicians are hard to be found (although I have my hopes on one here in the Netherlands). I could go on for this for hours, because I have a huge interest in Politics, but that is not appropriate for this forum.

Note to the screeners: I know that the Luchtzak-forums forbid politics, but I hope this is still within the limits (of this discussion). Sometimes politics and aviation do come very close.

sn26567 wrote:Do not dream too much! DHL will not buy the B777F, or any other new 'silent' plane for that matter, for economic reasons. They always said that only the MD11 satisfies their needs, because it is available on the second-hand market at reasonable prices. The B777F would be way too expensive!

I think this covers it all, when looking at the point of buying new planes for noise reduction. When looking at other DHL "look a likes", like UPS and FedEx, they all fly old planes, that mostly are converted passenger airliners. But I am not sure about UPS's B757 and B767's though.

Post by **luchtzak** » 21 Oct 2004, 11:31

jake99 wrote: DHL zaventem: loss of 1200
EAT : the unions saying that there are 5 a 600 people working there and that there will be also a loss of 50-70 %.

And I suppose they didn't take into account the jobs that will be lost in other companies working (partly) for DHL ?

Post by **sn26567** » 21 Oct 2004, 11:43

luchtzak wrote:And I suppose they didn't take into account the jobs that will be lost in other companies working (partly) for DHL ?

Correct, Bart. The consequences will be much wider than just the loss of jobs at DHL and EAT.

1) BRU will be less attractive for the other freight operators, especially the intercontinental ones. Many cargo airlines come to BRU because there is an integrator like DHL to dispatch their goods all over Europe. If the number of DHL flights decreases, so will the attractiveness of Brussels. These cargo airlines might look elsewhere, like Vatry or Leipzig (whatever DHL will choose...).

2) BIAC will lose an important part of its activity. That will reduce its value for the candidates wanting to buy a share, but also for the current investors holding a share of it.

3) All the companies that work in and around BRU thanks to DHL will see their activities reduced as well.

What a mess!

Andries · Post by **Andries** » 21 Oct 2004, 12:40

Today is the first day in my life that I am shamed to say that I am Belgian ...

Andries ...

Post by **sn26567** » 21 Oct 2004, 13:09

According to La Libre Belgique today, Liège Bierset remains an alternative. But will DHL still want to deal with the Belgian politics?

Cologne-Bonn is also a possibility, but TNT left from there because of the complaints of the neighbours.

Therefore, the only serious alternatives are Vatry (which is in the middle of nowhere and has a superb control tower, as shown at RTBF yesterday) and Leipzig.

Wherever they go, it will cost them more than remaining in Brussels.

pilatus · Post by **pilatus** » 21 Oct 2004, 15:06

As employee we were told it will be Vatry or Leipzig, in a few weeks we know. It was not the most pleasant day to work but hey live goes on.....

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 21 Oct 2004, 15:38

"The ring and access road to the airport were blocked by DHL employees this night around 2.30. No more movements on the airport since then.

Apparently 70% of the current DHL jobs at the airport will be gone by 2008... "

Sorry to say this, but If the staff want to walk out it might happen sooner, I for now since today will not use DHL to ship my goods from Belgium, and will instruct my suppliers not to use DHL to ship to me. I run a business and I cannot rely on DHL and it's staff to get my products on time at it's destination (unless of course it does not use the BRU hub)

I know this sounds drastic and that I don't care about the jobs, but I have a business also, If the staff will walk out without warning or refuse to handle flights then products will be delayed/lost. This in turn will create a down turn in Belgium traffic for DHL and who knows, just maybe that in turn forces them out sooner rather than later.

As a customer of DHL, I ask the staff to work with DHL and not against them, Politics , politics, but by walking out, dleaying flight all you are doing is playing into the hands and forcing the situation closer and quicker to the edge,

OK now it's time to get off my soap box, got to take a package to Fedex, who can still gaurentee my deliveries.................

Tony

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 21 Oct 2004, 15:44

Yep, I think I really have to agree EPS-aviation. It is not a solution to do actions right now. It will indeed give DHL the opportunity to leave much sooner out of Brussels. It doesn't give any solution. Only the stupid poiliticians are the ones who can keep DHL in Belgium. But then they will have to review their ideas and that will not come without any of them losing votes in the next elections. How could they let it come this far. Losing so many jobs in Belgium, losing one of the biggest international companies in Belgium. Politicians, I'm really ashamed of you right now!! Please go away! What must the rest of the world think now of Belgium. I'm shure that companys will think twice before investing in Belgium.

pilatus · Post by **pilatus** » 21 Oct 2004, 15:57

Indeed the action of the employees last night are not good. But it was very normal, they are all frustrated due to the weeks of unknowing what the future would bring. I think next night it will again be a problem night but I'm sure that by then they will be cooled down and pick up their lives again. The bright side is that we still can work till about 2008, plenty of time to look for another job. We at EAT kept on working, even harder then normal due to the divertions of the aircrafts. It is a pity, it was really nice working in the company and I hoped to stay for many years. Unfortunately the goverment thought something else and listened to i minority complainers. Thought Belgium was democratic....strange he

Marca · Post by **Marca** » 21 Oct 2004, 16:28

What are the intensions of EAT now ??

Untill 2008, Eat management does not foresee any significant changes to EAT's Brussels based operation.

In the event of the Brussels hub remaining,EAT would intend to re-structure its Brussels based organization commencing in 2008 to be for the most achieved in the same year to meet the requirements of the network configuration. This could result in a reduction of Brussels based employment for white-collar employees of approximately 250 to 300 compared to the 523 normally employed and a reduction of all 35 blue collar employees compared to the 35 regulary employed.

Prior to 2008, EAT would plan to open a new branch office at the location eventually chosen for DHL's intended new intercontinental hub. This would be necessary to support the planned re-organization whereby EAT would need to relocate a number of functions to the new intercontinental hub that currently are based in Brussels.

pilatus · Post by **pilatus** » 21 Oct 2004, 16:51

That is indeed what they told us this morning. The details will follow in a few weeks....

XenoX · Post by **XenoX** » 21 Oct 2004, 17:02

As an employee of DHL BRU HUB this news came pretty hard...

Daniel Alaerts

Marca · Post by **Marca** » 21 Oct 2004, 17:30

What are intentions of DHL Aviation NV now?

Business continues 'as usual' at the Brussels hub untill 2008..The federal Government guarentees a stable night flight regime.

DHL intends to build a new intercontinental hub in Vatry or Leipzig. The new hub would start trial operations in 2007, and go fully live in 2008.

In 2008, Brussels would remain as a regional hub. At DHL Aviation, this could result in a reduction of approximately 400 to 600 white-collar employees compared to the 922 normally employed , and of approximately 650 to 750 blue-collar employees compared to the 1074 normally employed.

Intended reduction of personnel would take place in 2008

This would not affect the DHL entities in Belgium other than EAT and DHL Aviation NV.

Post by **sn26567** » 21 Oct 2004, 17:37

Welcome to Luchtzak to all the DHL and EAT employees that recently joined to express their frustration. We feel sorry for you, guys and gals.

Now you should all know where the initial error was: the Anciaux dispersion plan that angered so many people living around the airport, even at distances of 5-8 km. Instead of concentrating the flights over the least populated areas and paying these 20,000 people for a suitable phonic isolation or even buying their houses, Anciaux dispersed the flights over more than 200,000 people, created an anger relayed by the government that prevented DHL to increase their flights.

Pilatus, when you doubt that Belgium is democratic, please consider that 200,000 incommodated neighbours carry more weight than 2,000 DHL employees on the day of voting... The politicians think more about their re-election than about these jobs...

Post by **luchtzak** » 21 Oct 2004, 17:49

I thought that Verhofstadt and his bunch where looking for more jobs, I was just thinking about their recent election-campaign (Guy zoekt werk)

Lyulka · Post by **Lyulka** » 21 Oct 2004, 17:59

I still wonder what the Belgian governement could have done to prevent DHL leaving Brussels? I think the pressure from the German politicians on "Deutche Post" shouldn't be denied either. Leipzig is one of the worst regions in Germany whan talking about jobs.
DHL decided to leave Brussels a lot earlier I think, but just wanted the Belgian governement to be blamed for it!