Ryanair cancels 2,100 flights in Sep-Oct 2017, and 18,000 more in Nov 2017-Mar 2018

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Passenger
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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger » 22 Sep 2017, 11:10

Boeing767copilot wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 04:21
Dear Passenger, after all this years and after all your posts, we know what you thing about FR and MOL.
Well, the events from the last two weeks have proven that I was right, isn't it?


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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sn26567 » 22 Sep 2017, 14:26

Ryanair did not respond to the pilots, who are thus going to start a "white strike", i.e. working strictly to the rules.

http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... rspective/
André
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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sn26567 » 22 Sep 2017, 18:23

A week after Ryanair began the mass cancellation of flights because of a pilot shortage, the airline has finally confirmed it will pay for passengers' flights on other airlines if necessary.

European passengers’ rights rules insist an airline that cancels a flight should offer passengers “re-routing under comparable transport conditions to their final destination at the earliest opportunity” — even if that means paying for a flight on a rival carrier.

And it may come out cheaper for Ryanair than to pay for hotel rooms and meals!
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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Inquirer » 22 Sep 2017, 22:29

On the vrt news site, there's an interview with a Belgian ryanair pilot giving an insight in the daily practices of the airline he works for (can't call him his employer, since he's self employed): zero hour contracts, a chaotic head office in Ireland unable to solve major network wide operational issues, crews going out understaffed and having to solve the situation themselves...

https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/09/22 ... dkwartier/

Other news sites are all running similar behind the scenes stories, as pilots at many bases seem to have had it with the way they are made to work. Some are even mentioning part of the flight preparation is done outside of the working hours to make the flight schedule work out?!

Is all of this even legal?
And if not, why has the oversight been failing for so long?
How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by teddybAIR » 23 Sep 2017, 10:11

Inquirer wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 22:29
How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?
Excellent question.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 » 23 Sep 2017, 12:04

teddybAIR wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 10:11
Inquirer wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 22:29
How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?
Excellent question.
Ever heard of external audits? In europe any aviation authority can conduct inspections on behalf of another one. Secondly inquirer, how can you go understaffed when Ryanair has always operated with minimum crew anyway. 3rd, all pilots are assigned a 45 min preflight briefing opportunity, that’s a legal requirement

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger » 23 Sep 2017, 13:00

sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 12:04
Secondly inquirer, how can you go understaffed when Ryanair has always operated with minimum crew anyway.
To read the article (VRT) may help to understand why:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/09/22 ... dkwartier/
"...Daarnet heb ik nog een crew (bemanning) gezien zonder piloot. Maar ze kunnen het hoofdkwartier in Dublin gewoon niet meer bereiken. Ook die centrale diensten in Dublin zijn onderbemand. Er zijn gevallen bekend van piloten die gestrand zijn ergens in het buitenland. Ze willen weten wat ze nu moeten doen, waar ze naartoe moeten. Maar er komt geen antwoord van Dublin. Ryanair is heel snel gegroeid, maar de centrale diensten zijn niet meegegroeid. Het gevolg is dus chaos."

In brief: I just saw a crew without a pilot, but they couldn't get in touch with Head Office because they are also understaffed there...

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 » 23 Sep 2017, 13:13

Passenger wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:00
sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 12:04
Secondly inquirer, how can you go understaffed when Ryanair has always operated with minimum crew anyway.
To read the article (VRT) may help to understand why:
https://www.vrt.be/vrtnws/nl/2017/09/22 ... dkwartier/
"...Daarnet heb ik nog een crew (bemanning) gezien zonder piloot. Maar ze kunnen het hoofdkwartier in Dublin gewoon niet meer bereiken. Ook die centrale diensten in Dublin zijn onderbemand. Er zijn gevallen bekend van piloten die gestrand zijn ergens in het buitenland. Ze willen weten wat ze nu moeten doen, waar ze naartoe moeten. Maar er komt geen antwoord van Dublin. Ryanair is heel snel gegroeid, maar de centrale diensten zijn niet meegegroeid. Het gevolg is dus chaos."

In brief: I just saw a crew without a pilot, but they couldn't get in touch with Head Office because they are also understaffed there...
As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad. When you leave with 2 pilots from base, you get back with 2 ....

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger » 23 Sep 2017, 13:22

sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:13
As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad. When you leave with 2 pilots from base, you get back with 2 ....
Unless one pilot becomes ill. Unless one pilot reports unfit to fly. Unless one pilot doesn't show up in the morning for whatever reason.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 » 23 Sep 2017, 13:37

Passenger wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:22
sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:13
As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad. When you leave with 2 pilots from base, you get back with 2 ....
Unless one pilot becomes ill. Unless one pilot reports unfit to fly. Unless one pilot doesn't show up in the morning for whatever reason.
That would mean you would still be in base, like I said, no overnights at FR. In that case you go back home, you’re not “stranded abroad” :roll:

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Klausenburg » 23 Sep 2017, 13:57

sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:13

As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad.
Meanwhile at Ryanair:
Meanwhile, the fatigue of flying for Ryanair is quite real. When I was there, I was regularly sent out of my base to fly on my days off, and without pay – to distant Ryanair bases that had a staffing shortage. I would take connecting flights and sometimes overnight layovers to arrive (hotel paid by me, and not reimbursed). Once there, I would report for duty, fly a heavy flight schedule for five consecutive days, then face the arduous journey back to my home base. If it was summer, I’d usually have only three days back at home before embarking on another such trip. It was a soul-destroying experience.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -long-haul

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 » 23 Sep 2017, 14:29

Klausenburg wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:57
sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 13:13

As Ryanair only does “there and back” flights, with no overnights, you can’t be stranded abroad.
Meanwhile at Ryanair:
Meanwhile, the fatigue of flying for Ryanair is quite real. When I was there, I was regularly sent out of my base to fly on my days off, and without pay – to distant Ryanair bases that had a staffing shortage. I would take connecting flights and sometimes overnight layovers to arrive (hotel paid by me, and not reimbursed). Once there, I would report for duty, fly a heavy flight schedule for five consecutive days, then face the arduous journey back to my home base. If it was summer, I’d usually have only three days back at home before embarking on another such trip. It was a soul-destroying experience.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -long-haul
I worked there for 13,5 years, and know it inside out. What this guy is talking about it pilots who do not have a nominated base (or floaters). This is optional, it’s a choice. They get more money for it and a better schedule as in 5 on-5 off instead of 5on-3off. Their choice, so not really a right to complain :) Pilots who DO have a home base and (again volunteer to) work out of base get a hefty payment for it and it’s limited to a few times a year contractually ... again, their own choice.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Passenger » 23 Sep 2017, 21:14

Inquirer wrote:
22 Sep 2017, 22:29
... ... why has the oversight been failing for so long? How effectively can an Irish administration supervise an airline predominantly based outside of its jurisdiction?
The Irish Aviation Authority will not / will never act against Ryanair. They support them. Remember the three Ryanair fuel emergencies Madrid/Valencia a few years ago? At the same moment that the Spanish CAA stated that they have opened an investigation file to find out what happened, O'Leary gave a press conference where he showed a document from the Irish IAA, in which the IAA said that the emergency calls were correct (*). Amazing, bizar, strange: an official board helping an airline with a huge PR problem.

Also now, the IAA keeps quiet about this Ryanair saga. The British CAA is not: on 19th September, they have ordered Ryanair to rebook stranded passsengers on other carriers.

CAA Ireland: silence
https://www.iaa.ie/news

CAA UK: "...we have written to the airline to clarify their legal obligations and seek assurances on how and when they will provide alternative flights with other airlines..."
http://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-seeks-ass ... protected/

(*) it's too off topic here, but tolipanebas explained us that it was a fake statement: the issue was not the call itself, but the fuel quantity they took on departure.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by DIBO » 23 Sep 2017, 21:56

sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 14:29
This is optional, it’s a choice. .... Their choice, so not really a right to complain .... again, their own choice
Not about flightcrew, but nonetheless Ryanair cabin crew told to move to Europe for six weeks at their own expense or go without pay.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 » 23 Sep 2017, 22:06

DIBO wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 21:56
sean1982 wrote:
23 Sep 2017, 14:29
This is optional, it’s a choice. .... Their choice, so not really a right to complain .... again, their own choice
Not about flightcrew, but nonetheless Ryanair cabin crew told to move to Europe for six weeks at their own expense or go without pay.
Every cabin crew contract has a clause where the company can assign up to 3 months of unpaid leave during winter for bases where there are significant reductions in aircraft, during this time the crew member can do another temporary job or claim economic unemployment benefits, much like belgian airlines do as well every winter. I would NEVER accept a relocation at own expense. At a certain point they will become desperate enough to pay the expenses for you, that's just how business is done in Ireland and the UK.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by Ansett » 23 Sep 2017, 23:25

Thanks "God", in a few years we should have gotten rid of the UK (in the EU) and their rogue economical ans social policies (for ex. zero hour contracts in most sectors). With Brexit, another problem may loom for MOL, since most FR shareholders are British (correct me if I am wrong). An EU airline must have a majority of EU shareholders.

I can agree with Sean that if you are offered a work contract and there are clauses you cannot accept, you do not sign the contract (unless you are despeerate for a job, but then you continue to look for another job if you dont like the one you have). However, this does not prevent an employer from stretching the interpretation of the clauses and even the application of such clauses to an extent where the elastic breaks. That is probalby what is happening.
Just like Eurowings, I feel some Schadenfreude", mainly because of MOL's arrogance, cheating and sometimes lying. It's a long awaited for and well deserved backlash. The Ryanair model may be running out of breath with new and more decent competitors on the market.

For once, Ryanair is not a boring subject, it's becoming a thriller : will it be Mission Impossible for MOL ? Or, how will he get out of it ?

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by sean1982 » 24 Sep 2017, 04:10

I agree Ansett, M’oL should be made to leave and so should Eddie Wilson, the chief “people” officer (or whatever he is called these days). He is the mastermind behind a lot of todays FR policies and one of the most unpleasant people I have ever laid eyes on. I still stand behind FR as a company, my colleagues were hardworking top notch professionals with only one thing on their mind and that is safety, the training departement is top notch and the best i’ve seen from any airline I worked for or experienced close by through partner or friends and Because of the opportunities I got and the career I made I was paid and treated well, however there is a reason why I left and much of it is what is on show today.

I do hope for lots of Friends and colleagues that FR comes out stronger with a new boss and a new code of ethics for their employees!

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by teddybAIR » 24 Sep 2017, 10:35

This is just a classic example of "what goes around, comes around". MoL's way of doing business is based on bargaining power. For most of Ryanair's history they have worked themselves in a superior negotiating position with all the stakeholders they do business with. Be it pilot's in desperate need of a job in the cockpit or regional airports for which they were often the sole large account. Thanks to the economic revival and growth in the overall aviation sector, the alternatives for pilots are increasing and Ryanair is experiencing first hand what the difference is between employee loyalty and lock-in: loyal employees stay when another alternative crosses their path while locked in employees will leave your company.

His reaction is quite predictable. My 2 cents is that he will train a large contingency of young desperate pilots in order to restore the excess of pilots and consequently his negotiation position towards flight crew.

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Re: Ryanair cancels 40-50 flights a day from mid-September to end-October 2017

Post by luchtzak » 24 Sep 2017, 10:46

British Civil Aviation Authority CEO Andrew Haines commented on the delays and cancellations affecting Ryanair passengers.

http://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryana ... -airlines/

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