Next winter season, Eurowings will replace Brussels Airlines on 2 of the 5 TXL-BRU rotations

[sn26567]

What about pax connecting in BRU with a Business class ticket to,,for instance, Africa, Toronto or Mumbay ?

I guess they will be in the BEST class (first three rows, with fast lane, free middle seat, free drink and snack, two free checked pieces of luggage, etc.; almost equivalent to SN business class)

[JOVAN]

Hi,

Welcome in the real -LCC- world !
Next time FR, cheaper and you know you get nothing from the beginning without any doubts !

EW is just FR with a part of the LH group undertitle ...125 Miles extra the difference ...

Cxb

GO RYANAIR GO
GO RYANAIR GO !!!

[RoMax]

A few comments:

- The short-haul product of EW is very similar to that of SN, except that they don't have a full Light&Relax counterpart. The Basic fare is basically Check&Go with largelly the same product features. Their Smart fare is very similar to the Flex&Fast, although I would argue the SN catering/service is better (EW is a bit...wel typicall German in terms of their snack, it's the same type of product as Lufthansa serves in Economy) and with SN you have slightly better other product benefits that are not directly related to the 'physical' ground or inflight product (but as long as pax buy an SN ticket on those EW operated flights, you'll still be able to benefit from those anyway). The Best product is similar to SN's Bizz&Class and both will become even more similar in the near future. Their aircraft even have slightly better legroom for these Best rows, something SN doesn't have for Bizz&Class (except the first row, but also there the room depends a bit on the aircraft). The meal is based on a buy-on-board a-la-carte concept, so their Best pax can choose whatever they want from the BOB menu. Although their BOB menu is not the best, that's not a bad product for short flights, pax like the 'choice' feature of such a concept.

- With EW operating the late evening and early morning rotation (and as such effectively replacing the SN nightstop in Berlin) it enables SN to optimise aircraft and crew usage on other markets where EW cannot act as a substitute. That's simply making use of benefits that are generated as being part of a group with multiple home markets, each having their own.

- There are a lot of misconceptions about what Eurowings really is (and in all honesty, the typical communication of LHG doesn't help) outside the markets where they are well established (Germany, Austria, ...). It's often seen as "an expensive LCC", "a bad FR copy", "a pure point-to-point airline" etc. while in fact it isn't any of those and quite similar to the hybrid concept of SN on the short haul network (except that SN has a broader hub-based network, has more typical network airline features and is still slightly more premium in the type of products). Therefore it's good they can 'test' something like this on a German route, where Eurowings is well known and better understood 'what exactly it is'.

- Prices on EW start very low, you can now find flights on BRU-TXL for the end of the year starting as from 29.99 one-way in Basic (similar to SN), 53.99 in Smart (significantly cheaper than Flex&Fast, compensating for the slightly lower product quality) and Best can be booked as from 99.99 one-way which is also a very reasonable tarrif.
--> So no EW is not the cheapest on the market, but it's also not the cheapest product. Price-quality wise many of their products are quite good and they are much more of a hybrid carrier than an LCC in terms of product.

[DannyVDB]

Hi Romax,

Interesting views. The comparison between Smart and Flex&Fast does not hold in my opinion, or only partially. For me the most important thing of the SN Flex&Fast service is the flexibility:
- I can cancel at no cost if my plans change
- I can take an earlier flight - when there is one and there are seats available - at no cost
- I can change the flight to another date at no cost unless there are no seats available anymore (at the same price).

I used (had to use) these possibilities many times ...

This is wat I call a useful service. I don't care about the seating and other type of stuff (in any case since I am senator they will leave - of possible - always a seat empty next to me). In fact it is the same as business class without the frills.

For the smart fare I don't see these offerings. It is only stated
The following additional services can be booked with the smart fare as required:
-
- Flex option (booking changes can be made until onli-checin closes)
-

So I assume the fares you mention will drastically increase when you opt for this - didn't try it though ...

Don't take me wrong: I am not against the takeover of the two flights (well four in fact) by EW, especially since they can keep Bordeaux the whole year round and expand in Rome [the latter could be well anticipating the downsizing or worse of Alitalia ?]

Regards,
Danny

[Inquirer]

Logical decision, IMHO.

When you have production sites on both ends, why on earth have staff from one airline work out of the other site every day? Never understood why SWISS isn't doing the first GVA => BRU, or why Lufthansa keeps several planes (and all of their crews) overnight in BXL: those inefficient set-ups must cost them a fortune in hotel and transportation bills on an annual basis?!?
At least the Austrians seem to have spoken with their Belgian colleagues.

I also agree on what was said above, in that many don't really seem to know Eurowings very well: their advertisements focus on low fares a lot and they logically resemble any other low cost product if you actually do travel in their lowest class, but just like B.air they offer much more via quite useful premium travel classes which make them a truely hybrid airlines, including flexibility, status, lounges etc.

Lufthansa just need to get it head around correctly naming the business: when it comes to Germanwings, Lufthansa clearly suffer from the unique German language feature to simply glue as many descriptors as possible together till the end result is totally incomprehensible and often even unreadable!
I've said it before: it's simply and shortly called HYBRID in English.

On the positive side, I think Germanwings have a commercially leaner approach in that they only have 3 iso 4 different classes to span the European market, achieved by offering full flexibility simply as an add-on to the middle class segment, rather than as a separate economy class segment in its own right.
Personally, I think that's the way to go for Brussels Airlines too: get rid of the absurd distinction between Flex&Fast vs. Light&Relax and just make it one single class, with flexibility available as an add-on.

IMHO, the one big problem with Eurowings is that they are not a STAR member, and thus don't automatically recognize your status if you're not a frequent flyer of theirs and happen to have booked in a too low class this time. For them it probably makes sense since it saves them money and I'd figure 85% of their passengers are purely their own passengers (or those of Lufthansa) anyway, but for B.air it would likely be a big problem if they'd be forced to do the same, since I guess the percentage of externally fed premium customers is much much higher?

One of the major issues to any type of commercial integration is thus likely going to be how they deal with that: will Eurowings somehow join STAR, or will B.air leave STAR alliance? The latter would IMHO be difficult as I can imagine their exotic intercontinental network to be of great interest to STAR, as well as a lot of the revenues generated on it to depend on free and frictionless STAR feed too.

I am not a routine flyer on the Berlin route, but I wouldn't be surprised to see they'll actually use it to test out new methods for Eurowings to accommodate more non-Eurowings premium passengers in future.
Maybe Danny or somebody else has more mileage on Berlin and can keep a close eye on this to see if indeed they grant perks to certain types of connecting passengers to which those are normally not entitled to, based on the current Eurowings rules?

Back on topic:
any schedules for the year round flights to BOD, and the additional daily frequency to Rome, already?

[DannyVDB]

Logical decision, IMHO.

On the positive side, I think Germanwings have a commercially leaner approach in that they only have 3 iso 4 different classes to span the European market, achieved by offering full flexibility simply as an add-on to the middle class segment, rather than as a separate economy class segment in its own right.
Personally, I think that's the way to go for Brussels Airlines too: get rid of the absurd distinction between Flex&Fast vs. Light&Relax and just make it one single class, with flexibility available as an add-on.

I don't think it is a wise decision from the economical point of view. SN prices for these type tickets are quite high (might be lowered a bit of course), so generate a lot of money (I assume) without too many additional costs (but on some flights only I guess - sometimes there are at least 30 pax in this class). E.g. The price is usually around 500-600€. And for me this is business without the blabla.

From the user perspective, business people (an other professionals) do usually not want to be bothered too much with thinking about the travel, i.e. taking options, adding services and making little changes prior/during the flight, ... - at least most of them should and will concentrate on their work and not on the travel which - at the end of the day - is not an end in itself (maybe for fanatics like us yes, but not for 95% of professionals).

IMHO, the one big problem with Eurowings is that they are not a STAR member, and thus don't automatically recognize your status if you're not a frequent flyer of theirs and happen to have booked in a too low class this time. For them it probably makes sense since it saves them money and I'd figure 85% of their passengers are purely their own passengers (or those of Lufthansa) anyway, but for B.air it would likely be a big problem if they'd be forced to do the same, since I guess the percentage of externally fed premium customers is much much higher?

I don't quite follow you here / maybe I did not understand. If you are a frequent flyer (at least M&M), those rules apply also for their EW flight. EW is not member of the STAR Alliance but as part of the LH Group they are part of the M&M programme. So for example if you have a business class ticket to somewhere in Africa or a combined ticket rather, i.e. with the BER-BRU leg in BEST or SMART (EW) and the long leg on SN, you will just get access to the lounge (because that is their general rule - see their website). You get also miles, etc. If you are not travelling in business but you have Senator or higher you will also be entitled to access the lounge(s), at least that is how I interprete things. But I can't test it

I am not a routine flyer on the Berlin route, but I wouldn't be surprised to see they'll actually use it to test out new methods for Eurowings to accommodate more non-Eurowings premium passengers in future.
Maybe Danny or somebody else has more mileage on Berlin and can keep a close eye on this to see if indeed they grant perks to certain types of connecting passengers to which those are normally not entitled to, based on the current Eurowings rules?

Although I was several times in Berlin, I am unfortunately not a frequent flyer on that route ...

Cheers,
Danny

[DannyVDB]

By the way,

Is the solution a SN flight operated by EW (so with an SN flight number and eventually codeshared with LH, EW ...) or is a real EW flight with their number (and on which SN is codesharing). This makes a big difference. In the first case, it is just like the flights operated by CityJet, in the second case it is handing over the two flights.

We can see it when we see the flight numbers, no?

D

[RoMax]

Is the solution a SN flight operated by EW (so with an SN flight number and eventually codeshared with LH, EW ...) or is a real EW flight with their number (and on which SN is codesharing). This makes a big difference. In the first case, it is just like the flights operated by CityJet, in the second case it is handing over the two flights.

We can see it when we see the flight numbers, no?

They are codeshares. You can now also find them on the SN website (yesterday it seemed only the update of the EW booking system was fully ready). They have SN541X flightnumbers vs. SN25XX for the SN operated flights.

You also see that Check&Go is not available, in Economy only Light&Relax and Flex&Fast. I would have to check how they do that in terms of check-in luggage as when you proceed through SN's booking system you can see the product specifications of Light&Relax wich include free luggage (which is not the case normally in "Basic"). Is very well possible that that the arrangement between SN and EW allows SN to sell the Basic fare under SN marketing code with the same or almost the same features as the normal Light&Relax and that they rather skip the Check&Go fare on these flights (which are mainly focussed on the low-yield leisure market anyway, for which SN has more than enough alternatives anyway with their own flights).

The same can then also be applied to Flex&Fast. I'm quite sure that if you book the flight via SN in Flex&Fast, you'll still be able to enjoy the flexibility etc. Even though it's a codeshare, you effectively buy a ticket with SN in such a case. I don't see a reason why you wouldn't be able to use the flexibility of that ticket fare when you want to change your ticket (with SN).

They market the Light&Relax tickets at a slightly higher fare (59.18 one way on SN, 69.18 on EW), Flex&Fast fares are the same (both at 194.18 one-way). Bizz&Class is also a uniform fare, currently at 349.18 one-way (for the days I checked, I'm not 100% sure this is the base fare for these classes).

[ezis_bis]

I don't quite follow you here / maybe I did not understand. If you are a frequent flyer (at least M&M), those rules apply also for their EW flight. EW is not member of the STAR Alliance but as part of the LH Group they are part of the M&M programme.

Because not every frequent flyer within *A has M&M
So for this group of people, this is less attractive

Basically, when flying SN you get the same perks as when flying SK or UA or TG or NH

When flying EW, you get the same as FR or U2

[Inquirer]

IMHO, the one big problem with Eurowings is that they are not a STAR member, and thus don't automatically recognize your status if you're not a frequent flyer of theirs and happen to have booked in a too low class this time. For them it probably makes sense since it saves them money and I'd figure 85% of their passengers are purely their own passengers (or those of Lufthansa) anyway, but for B.air it would likely be a big problem if they'd be forced to do the same, since I guess the percentage of externally fed premium customers is much much higher?

I don't quite follow you here / maybe I did not understand. If you are a frequent flyer (at least M&M), those rules apply also for their EW flight. EW is not member of the STAR Alliance but as part of the LH Group they are part of the M&M programme. So for example if you have a business class ticket to somewhere in Africa or a combined ticket rather, i.e. with the BER-BRU leg in BEST or SMART (EW) and the long leg on SN, you will just get access to the lounge (because that is their general rule - see their website). You get also miles, etc. If you are not travelling in business but you have Senator or higher you will also be entitled to access the lounge(s), at least that is how I interprete things. But I can't test it

As was meanwhile explained in very simple terms, Eurowings does not recognize any non-LHG frequent flyer status; B.air however does. The difference makes sense of course, because one is a STAR alliance member, the other isn't, but it's a potentially big issue if they want to integrate the 2 airlines commercially.

As I've said: for Eurowings it's probably no big deal at present as I doubt they see many say Air Canada, or United passengers flying with them, and if so, it's only on short flights anyway; the same can probably not be said about B.air, which I very much imagine to carry loads of passengers on their quite unique and exotic intercontinental flights first flying into Brussels on another STAR alliance airline flight.
If they'd deal with those connecting people the same way Eurowings currently deals with them, I'm pretty sure STAR alliance won't be happy, and if they quit STAR alliance over it, they probably risk loosing these passengers all together even!
I could be wrong of course, but I think the benefits from the STAR alliance membership are quite essential for Brussels Airlines in order to underpin their intercontinental network and they are one of the several obvious stumbling blocks to any commercial integration with Eurowings.

[sn26567]

An interesting comment from the Luchtzak Facebook page:

Der Untergang... Very sad to see our legacy carrier absorbed into the low cost. I booked with Eurowings for a recent return from Tegel to Brussels (via Stuttgart, of course) thinking I'm not doing anything stupid; after all, it's all Lufthansa Group and from previous experiences, I know that if anything goes wrong with the flight I just get rebooked on any other Lufthansa Group connection. The flight was cancelled and I learned the hard way that Eurowings bookings have nothing to do with the rest of the group. The only thing they offer (aside from putting you on the first available flight a few days later) is advice to go and buy yourself a new ticket from another airline and pray for reimbursement...

Surprise, Eurowings replied on the same Luchtzal Facebook page:

Hello Tomek, I am really sorry that you have been affected by a cancellation! This is not the experience we want you to have as customer satisfaction is of top priority. Please send us an email to buchungsinfo@eu.eurowings.com. My colleagues will assess your claims and get back to you as soon as possible. We would be happy if we could show you next time that this was an exception! Kind regards, Natalie

In this, Eurowings really differs from most LCCs.

[Bralo20]

Surprise, Eurowings replied on the same Luchtzal Facebook page:

In this, Eurowings really differs from most LCCs.

Probably just because they don't want to see angry people right of the start of trying to force EW methods and flights into SN's operation. Better keep the publicly complaining customer happy and thus remove fuel for further complaints.

But it's interesting to see that they are following this site.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

It would be a smart move from LH if they could let SN enter the BRU - FRA and BRU - MUC markets, offering kind of alternatives on these routes!

[b.lufthansa]

It would be a smart move from LH if they could let SN enter the BRU - FRA and BRU - MUC markets, offering kind of alternatives on these routes!

The Lufthansa Unions would never agree on that, strong as they are.

[Bistro]

Any idea why the number of rotations is, in addition, reduced from 5 to 4?

[sn26567]

Welcome to Aviation24, Bistro !

[DannyVDB]

Any idea why the number of rotations is, in addition, reduced from 5 to 4?

Maybe they will use A320 for all flights, so less flights but bigger planes. Just guessing ...

D

[Yuqu12]

Could very well be the case. The 4 RJ100 flights to MXP became 2 319 flights, so it has happened already before.

[sn26567]

Could very well be the case. The 4 RJ100 flights to MXP became 2 319 flights, so it has happened already before.

Not exactly: this move coincided with the launch of flights to Linate.