Brussels Airlines in 2017

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skumfiduse
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by skumfiduse »

flywithUs wrote: 12 Apr 2017, 22:40 I do enjoy your enthousiasm, but ATM the figures show a market share of "only" 36,5%. Impressive growth from a few years ago, though ;-).
Also impressive is the number of Brussels Airlines Airbusses parked at Pier A at night ☺️

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by sn26567 »

This funny article from BBC shows that, although the distance between Freetown and Banjul is only 700 km (50 minutes flight), the fastest way between the two capitals is via Brussels (with Brussels Airlines)

Direct flight (non-existent): 50 minutes
With SN via BRU: < 24 hrs
With RAM via RAK: ~30 hrs
With various African airlines: FNA - ABJ - DKR - BJL: > 30 hrs

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39979814
André
ex Sabena #26567

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JOVAN »

sn26567 wrote: 25 May 2017, 22:56 This funny article from BBC shows that, although the distance between Freetown and Banjul is only 700 km (50 minutes flight), the fastest way between the two capitals is via Brussels (with Brussels Airlines)

Direct flight (non-existent): 50 minutes
With SN via BRU: < 24 hrs
With RAM via RAK: ~30 hrs
With various African airlines: FNA - ABJ - DKR - BJL: > 30 hrs

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39979814

We know that Korongo was a disaster, but how about setting up a small decent airline in Togo, with connections to all West African countries.
Clearly a mission for SN, with its strong position there and its excellent reputation.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by sn-remember »

sn26567 wrote: 25 May 2017, 22:56 This funny article from BBC shows that, although the distance between Freetown and Banjul is only 700 km (50 minutes flight), the fastest way between the two capitals is via Brussels (with Brussels Airlines)

Direct flight (non-existent): 50 minutes
With SN via BRU: < 24 hrs
With RAM via RAK: ~30 hrs
With various African airlines: FNA - ABJ - DKR - BJL: > 30 hrs

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39979814
You would have a long lay over in cmn but it's way shorter distance wise. Bru is not an option.
And they forget the flight bjl-fna operated by MGF using a B737-400. Granted not daily.
The days are over when there was no option to connect some african city pairs together other than transiting in Europe.

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by RoMax »

sn-remember wrote: 27 May 2017, 13:26 You would have a long lay over in cmn but it's way shorter distance wise. Bru is not an option.
And they forget the flight bjl-fna operated by MGF using a B737-400. Granted not daily.
The days are over when there was no option to connect some african city pairs together other than transiting in Europe.
It's not that it's impossible, but it can be very difficult, long and expensive. For time-sensitive business travellers, waiting for a flight 2 days later or flying through 2-3 other African airports with bad connections, is not an option. It still happens today that passengers fly via Europe (or long ways out via North or South Africa) between 2 East/Central/West-African cities. Of course it's not a big volume, but it does happen. Quite insane if you think about it, but that's still reality in parts of the African aviation market.
JOVAN wrote: 27 May 2017, 11:59 We know that Korongo was a disaster, but how about setting up a small decent airline in Togo, with connections to all West African countries.
Clearly a mission for SN, with its strong position there and its excellent reputation.
Togo already has Asky Airlines, which is not doing bad but of which Ethiopian Airlines had bigger hopes as well. It remains difficult to develop a competitive airline in Africa. SN has some huge expertise and a strong reputation there, but that doesn't mean governments of all 'interesting' countries will cooperate for traffic rights, that they remove their sometimes absolutely insane taxes on air transport, etc. ... especially if European money is involved. Although many of those countries fully support intercontinental transport via airlines like SN, they don't want to give control over their local markets to these carriers. SN has a few 5th freedom rights in West-Africa, but they can be withdrawn any minute there is something they don't like and/or when one of 'their' airlines can operate these (it happened with Senegal, fortunately at that time a commercial deal could be reached, but still). It's like Korongo vs. Congo Airways, the latter is a local 'national' carrier with strategic support from AF (or at least that's how they started, don't know if that's still the case?) and that's all fine, but Korongo which was actually controlled by SN...no no. It's not that bad in many West-African countries, but still they try to remain in control of their local airlines (like AF-KL that has a big minority stake in Air Côte d'Ivoire, they get rewarded for that on intercontinental connections and market access via Air Côte d'Ivoire, but they can't control them).

Investing an interesting local project might be interesting and paying off in the end, but trying to set up their own airline again? I don't think the latter is a good idea, not as long as so many African countries remain so protective of their markets and in fact discourage air travel for a bigger public with extremely high taxes etc. It's an all other business then intercontinental travel to/from Africa wereby the taxes make up a less significant part of the total price (but still outrageous in some markets), where there are no ground transport alternatives, where it's easier to cope with the low volumes in air travel because it's easier to consolidate and with fewer alternatives, etc.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by sn-remember »

skumfiduse wrote: 12 Apr 2017, 23:45 Also impressive is the number of Brussels Airlines Airbusses parked at Pier A at night ☺️
And I wonder why some of them are not flying ...
One could very well imagine them operating night rotations to the sunny destinations such as lpa/tnf/rak/pmi/mla/fao/fnc/rai/sal/lca/her etc ... Taking off before 22:00 and back at 06:00. At least during the sunny half of the year ?
Romax wrote: For time-sensitive business travellers, waiting for a flight 2 days later or flying through 2-3 other African airports with bad connections, is not an option.
Not 2 days but 1 day + .. meaning spending 1 night somewhere between O and D (can be a valid option to many travelers if the hotel is decent). Flying through 2 or 3 transit points is I think exagerated (1 point is the rule for regional travel in case no direct flight is available).
As I say, the interconnection between african city pairs is by far more covered than used to be I would say 10 to 15 yrs ago .. and continuing to improve:). It's quite rare nowadays to find no or impractical option among most of the intra-african network . Not saying you won't find any exception though :)

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skumfiduse
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by skumfiduse »

sn-remember wrote: 27 May 2017, 16:25
skumfiduse wrote: 12 Apr 2017, 23:45 Also impressive is the number of Brussels Airlines Airbusses parked at Pier A at night ☺️
And I wonder why some of them are not flying ...
One could very well imagine them operating night rotations to the sunny destinations such as lpa/tnf/rak/pmi/mla/fao/fnc/rai/sal/lca/her etc ... Taking off before 22:00 and back at 06:00. At least during the sunny half of the year ?
I fully agree with you during summertime. Fleet utilisation/optimisation is part of the Thomas Cook Airlines take-over plan. Hopefully that will lead to less Airbusses staying overnight at BRU.

On the other hand, some business-oriented destinations could see potential for a night-stop?

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by AIRMARSHAL »

Yeah, BCN , NCE and AGP cross my mind to start with

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by PjVangerven »

I might be wrong but SN already has soms planes that stay overnight at other airports. Last year I was in Bilbao for a conference and the plane stayed during the night.

DannyVDB
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by DannyVDB »

Indeed ... To me it looks normal that part of the fleet is in airports outside Belgium in order to guarantee early departures there. But you need also enough airplanes in Belgium to leave early in the morning from BRU.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by SN501 »

PjVangerven wrote: 29 May 2017, 16:27 I might be wrong but SN already has soms planes that stay overnight at other airports. Last year I was in Bilbao for a conference and the plane stayed during the night.
26 aircrafts (including the wet leased fleet) stay overnight at BMA, LIN, HAJ, BIO, TXL, HAM, OSL, MAD, GOT, BUD, PRG, BRE, LYS, CPH, WAW, TLS, BLL, VCE, MRS, BRS, EDI, NTE, MAN, BHX, TLV, LHR.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by travellover »

SN501 wrote: 29 May 2017, 16:55
26 aircrafts (including the wet leased fleet) stay overnight at BMA, LIN, HAJ, BIO, TXL, HAM, OSL, MAD, GOT, BUD, PRG, BRE, LYS, CPH, WAW, TLS, BLL, VCE, MRS, BRS, EDI, NTE, MAN, BHX, TLV, LHR.
And 8, 9 or 10 long haul are flying every night to BRU' A few narrow body stay a while for technical check regularely. Around 12 to 14 narrow body spending the night àt BRU to leave early in the morning. Adding TLV early arrival.
Cheers

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by HQ_BRU_Lover »

Is it a strategy often used by European airlines?

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by sn-remember »

travellover wrote: 29 May 2017, 17:51 Around 12 to 14 narrow body spending the night àt BRU to leave early in the morning. Adding TLV early arrival.
The point we wanted to stress (skumfiduse and I), better make them fly during the night to the sunny destinations, half of the year the sun shines around the mediterranian and further..
Take off in the evening and back in the very early morning, ready for the first day rotations.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Inquirer »

I could be wrong, but who wants to arrive at his holiday destination at say 2o' clock at night, provided the airport is open at those times even?
Most tourist hotels don't have receptions staffed at night, and in any case if you want to have a room available at that time, you'll have to pay for the extra night BEFORE your arrival too, so not exactly economic. The alternative is waiting almost 12 hours for your room to become available!!!
The above might very well be the reason why no airline flies European flights at night, to my knowledge: not enough commercial demand at those times.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JOVAN »

travellover wrote: 29 May 2017, 17:51
SN501 wrote: 29 May 2017, 16:55
26 aircrafts (including the wet leased fleet) stay overnight at BMA, LIN, HAJ, BIO, TXL, HAM, OSL, MAD, GOT, BUD, PRG, BRE, LYS, CPH, WAW, TLS, BLL, VCE, MRS, BRS, EDI, NTE, MAN, BHX, TLV, LHR.
And 8, 9 or 10 long haul are flying every night to BRU' A few narrow body stay a while for technical check regularely. Around 12 to 14 narrow body spending the night àt BRU to leave early in the morning. Adding TLV early arrival.
Really time to consider nightflights to Tehran, Moscow, Beirut, ...

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by sn-remember »

@Inquirer
Oh no it's quite common to have flights arriving in the 23.00/01.00 braket in most leisure destinations.
And leaving around 00.00/02.00 in the morning (sometimes later).
Typically you have your bru-agp-bru scheduled the following : 21.45-00.30 / 03.00-06.00
bru-aga(rak)-bru : 21.30-00.15/01.15-06.00
bru-fao-bru : 21.50-23.45/02.00-06.00
bru-pmi-bru : 21.50-24.00/03.50-06.00
I can continue, in fact any flight around 2 to 3.5 hr duration will fit in.
Flights to the Canaries for instance would need to depart earlier (around 20.00), not sure ther are many idle a/c at that time.
Ideally you would like a landing around 05.30am but not sure it's allowed with the current curfew scheme.
Talking about inconvenience, I have a buddy coming from Lille and taking-off from Bru at 06.00 in july .. He asked me to spend the evening with me and later to drive him at Bru. He'll spend some nasty night hours on a chair in the departure hall with wife and 2 baby kids ... BTW he's not an exception.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by SN501 »

JOVAN wrote: 29 May 2017, 21:17
travellover wrote: 29 May 2017, 17:51
SN501 wrote: 29 May 2017, 16:55
26 aircrafts (including the wet leased fleet) stay overnight at BMA, LIN, HAJ, BIO, TXL, HAM, OSL, MAD, GOT, BUD, PRG, BRE, LYS, CPH, WAW, TLS, BLL, VCE, MRS, BRS, EDI, NTE, MAN, BHX, TLV, LHR.
And 8, 9 or 10 long haul are flying every night to BRU' A few narrow body stay a while for technical check regularely. Around 12 to 14 narrow body spending the night àt BRU to leave early in the morning. Adding TLV early arrival.
Really time to consider nightflights to Tehran, Moscow, Beirut, ...
It's not that simple as those 12 to 14 narrow body that spent the night at BRU lands as follow (summer season):

21:50 from TXL
22:30 GVA, BMA
23:15 CPH
23:25 LIS, AGP, MAD, BCN, FCO, MXP, NCE, VIE

You need those aircraft for the earlier departures from BRU (flight for tomorrow morning):

06:00 to LPA
06:20 MXP, TXL, GVA
06:25 BCN
06:30 BSL
06:50 CDG (x2)
07:00 VIE
07:20 IBZ
07:30 FCO

In a nutshell it's possible to operate an extra departure from BRU around 22:40 but the aircraft has to be back before 07:00 otherwise the morning flight are affected. So with the current fleet, destinations and timetable it seems not possible to launch a nightflight to the destination you mention.

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by sn-remember »

SN501, not contesting the late arrivals flights wave, I was landing last week around 21.00 and I can tell you there was indeed an impressive number of Brussels Airlines a/c aligned at the pier. And they were not going to depart that evening except one to TXL. Hence this discussion. Not saying they all should be in the air but maybe some of them ?

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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Stij »

There s still a wave of departures after 2100... VCE for instance...

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