Brussels Airlines in 2017

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convair
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by convair »

saratoga wrote: 21 Oct 2017, 15:38 What about the Strasbourg SXB flights??
bmi ERJ145 1/day

SR20
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by SR20 »

SN2308 BMA-BRU (operated by CityJet) cancelled this evening. Does anyone know the reason ?
Capture+_2017-10-22-20-43-21.png

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Honestly, I still do fail to understand why Brussels Airlines will have to operate these A340s on behalf of Eurowings...

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JustPlanes »

Totally agree... if Brussels Airlines had a surplus of aircraft I would see leasing a pair to Eurowings... but they're not only getting additional planes, they're getting a type the airline doesn't operate not to mention that airlines are switching from A340s to A330s or other 2 engine planes. Its pretty clear that this will be a good deal for Eurowings/Lufthansa as all they have to do is sell the seats... but more risks for SN who has to operate those old birds. There has to be more to this deal than we are told ;)

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Poiu »

JustPlanes wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 06:28 Totally agree... if Brussels Airlines had a surplus of aircraft I would see leasing a pair to Eurowings... but they're not only getting additional planes, they're getting a type the airline doesn't operate not to mention that airlines are switching from A340s to A330s or other 2 engine planes. Its pretty clear that this will be a good deal for Eurowings/Lufthansa as all they have to do is sell the seats... but more risks for SN who has to operate those old birds. There has to be more to this deal than we are told ;)
Its not that difficult to understand is it?
SN leases an 340 for 4000€/hour, recruites crew which costs 1000/€, buys insurance for 100€/hour, signes a maintenace agreement for 1200€/hour: total cost 6300€ hour, the A340 is then operated on behalf of EW at 6500€. Benefit 200€/hour, small but better than nothing. Benefit for EW also 200€ as LH crew would cost 1400€.
You can play with the price to shift taxes. Only losers are the taxman and the crew, who are on a bad SN contract iso a nice LH one, should EW operate the A340s themselves as per agreement with the unions.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Yuqu12 »

brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 01:28 Honestly, I still do fail to understand why Brussels Airlines will have to operate these A340s on behalf of Eurowings...
Because LH owns them and tells them what to do. Certainly because Spohr doesn't want that his EW-project fails...

saratoga
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by saratoga »

Yuqu12 wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 09:09
brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 01:28 Honestly, I still do fail to understand why Brussels Airlines will have to operate these A340s on behalf of Eurowings...
Because LH owns them and tells them what to do. Certainly because Spohr doesn't want that his EW-project fails...
The beginning of the end??? I am very pessimistic with this Eurowings-SN integration. I really hope i am soooooo wrong and that SN benefits of it. Have never trusted these Germans with their "Deutschland-uber-alles" culture.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Yuqu12 »

The beginning of the end was imo the take-over of SN by LH...

Shengenzone
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Shengenzone »

Yuqu12 wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 09:30 The beginning of the end was imo the take-over of SN by LH...
Agreed.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Poiu »

Shengenzone wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 09:36
Yuqu12 wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 09:30 The beginning of the end was imo the take-over of SN by LH...
Agreed.
Without LH the end would have been 5 years ago.
LH saved SN from bankruptcy, the future could be ACMI operator for EW, but at least there is a future!

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JustPlanes »

These extra wide bodies should be operating some routes out of BRU... not DUS...
Brussels Airlines needs more US flights to feed Africa/Europe/India....
Boston, Miami, Chicago, Denver, San Francisco, Los Angeles etc etc etc... why is there no expansion whatsoever all the while LH, EW, OS, LX are expanding over the Atlantic...

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by crew1990 »

JustPlanes wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 20:40 These extra wide bodies should be operating some routes out of BRU... not DUS...
Brussels Airlines needs more US flights to feed Africa/Europe/India....
Boston, Miami, Chicago, Denver, San Francisco, Los Angeles etc etc etc... why is there no expansion whatsoever all the while LH, EW, OS, LX are expanding over the Atlantic...
Come on, I can understand the frustration that SN will not used those A340 for themselves, I'm am too, but let's be honest, SN has been growing a lot in the last year, mainly in north america sector. A few years ago there were no flight to north america, now there are 3 destinations, 18 weekly flight in summer season...

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by nordikcam »

crew1990 wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 21:41
JustPlanes wrote: 23 Oct 2017, 20:40 These extra wide bodies should be operating some routes out of BRU... not DUS...
Brussels Airlines needs more US flights to feed Africa/Europe/India....
Boston, Miami, Chicago, Denver, San Francisco, Los Angeles etc etc etc... why is there no expansion whatsoever all the while LH, EW, OS, LX are expanding over the Atlantic...
Come on, I can understand the frustration that SN will not used those A340 for themselves, I'm am too, but let's be honest, SN has been growing a lot in the last year, mainly in north america sector. A few years ago there were no flight to north america, now there are 3 destinations, 18 weekly flight in summer season...
...and a flight to Asia !

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JustPlanes »

The lack of expansion in the US is not only bad for Brussels Airlines... its bad for Brussels Airport and its bad for Belgium....
Take the example where I live here in Boston.

If I take the Top 25 airports in Europe we have service to all but Russia and Brussels....
Brussels as the Capital of Europe!!!!
Take Keflavik, the 65th airport in Europe.... and 4 daily nonstop from Boston!

As a Belgian living in Boston who previously worked for SN here and filled up every flight from the A310 to the B747-300 except in the middle of the winter I find that pretty sad!

But I understand that LH has 3 flights a day including 748 and 359 and Swiss has 2 a day so they wouldn't want SN to take any of their business away... If thats how things evolve SN may as well move their entire operation to DUS :)

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by PttU »

JustPlanes wrote: 24 Oct 2017, 07:35 As a Belgian living in Boston who previously worked for SN here and filled up every flight from the A310 to the B747-300 except in the middle of the winter I find that pretty sad!
How many of those passengers had BRU or BOS as their final destination? I'd guess there are quite some connecting passengers, and those can travel through JFK or EWG, IAD, ATL... or even YUL or YYZ on that side of the ocean. And maybe one or more of those hubs/destinations wasn't available when BOS was?

RTM
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by RTM »

JustPlanes wrote: 24 Oct 2017, 07:35 The lack of expansion in the US is not only bad for Brussels Airlines... its bad for Brussels Airport and its bad for Belgium....
Take the example where I live here in Boston.

If I take the Top 25 airports in Europe we have service to all but Russia and Brussels....
Brussels as the Capital of Europe!!!!
Take Keflavik, the 65th airport in Europe.... and 4 daily nonstop from Boston!

As a Belgian living in Boston who previously worked for SN here and filled up every flight from the A310 to the B747-300 except in the middle of the winter I find that pretty sad!

But I understand that LH has 3 flights a day including 748 and 359 and Swiss has 2 a day so they wouldn't want SN to take any of their business away... If thats how things evolve SN may as well move their entire operation to DUS :)
That sounds like some hefty competition... And you wonder why SN doesn't jump in head first...? :shock:

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JustPlanes »

PttU wrote: 24 Oct 2017, 10:01
JustPlanes wrote: 24 Oct 2017, 07:35 As a Belgian living in Boston who previously worked for SN here and filled up every flight from the A310 to the B747-300 except in the middle of the winter I find that pretty sad!
How many of those passengers had BRU or BOS as their final destination? I'd guess there are quite some connecting passengers, and those can travel through JFK or EWG, IAD, ATL... or even YUL or YYZ on that side of the ocean. And maybe one or more of those hubs/destinations wasn't available when BOS was?
BOS is a pretty nice place to transfer through, JFK is hell... Look at today for example... it was windy in NYC and as the evening went on flights were delayed 2-3-4 hours... BOS is small and you can almost walk to the next terminal if you wanted.
As far as connections... yes there were a good number of connections depending on the night anywhere from 30 to 60% but SN has a nice European and African network so that would still work today.
A daily flight to BOS would bring in a good number of pax for SN for BRU Airport and more tourists to Belgium.

JustPlanes
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by JustPlanes »

RTM wrote: 24 Oct 2017, 16:27
JustPlanes wrote: 24 Oct 2017, 07:35 The lack of expansion in the US is not only bad for Brussels Airlines... its bad for Brussels Airport and its bad for Belgium....
Take the example where I live here in Boston.

If I take the Top 25 airports in Europe we have service to all but Russia and Brussels....
Brussels as the Capital of Europe!!!!
Take Keflavik, the 65th airport in Europe.... and 4 daily nonstop from Boston!

As a Belgian living in Boston who previously worked for SN here and filled up every flight from the A310 to the B747-300 except in the middle of the winter I find that pretty sad!

But I understand that LH has 3 flights a day including 748 and 359 and Swiss has 2 a day so they wouldn't want SN to take any of their business away... If thats how things evolve SN may as well move their entire operation to DUS :)
That sounds like some hefty competition... And you wonder why SN doesn't jump in head first...? :shock:
And there's no hefty competition to Mumbai? With just 1 destination in Asia and not even daily SN is certainly not going to make a mark there... and the reason there is hefty competition here is because there is a huge demand... these flights are in the 80s-90s% load factor easily in summer. Why does Keflavik have 4 nonstops a day... simply because there is enough traffic for them to fill their planes here... They could probably fill another one if they had the planes...
British now sends an A380 here, not to New York... which is pretty telling as well.

Anyway all this doesn't really matter... SN obviously does what they think is best for them and thats fine... its just sad that Brussels is the only main European city not served from here while the old SN did very well here.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by luchtzak »

Point-to-Point Airlines with significantly positive earnings contribution

With the first-time consolidation of Brussels Airlines and the further addition of the Air Berlin wet-lease operations, the Group’s Point-to-Point Airlines almost doubled their nine-month revenues to EUR 3,031 million. They posted a clearly positive Adjusted EBIT for the period of EUR 145 million (prior-year period: EUR -24 million). They also achieved a significant further improvement in their unit costs for the period, including a third-quarter reduction of just under 10-per-cent. “We expect Eurowings to report a positive result as early as this year,” Ulrik Svensson confirms, “which is a year earlier than we originally envisaged.”

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/lufth ... nths-2017/

Inquirer
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Re: Brussels Airlines in 2017

Post by Inquirer »

Interesting reading indeed:
while they do not split out this result further over the different business units, it's a safe bet to conclude Brussels Airlines is significantly contributing to the overall positive figures here too, probably by something like 1/4th of the total result, going by their capacity share, if unit revenues and costs are more or less in line with those of Eurowings and the consolidated Air Berlin operations of course, but the fact they have been chosen to become the platform from which to start Eurowings' intercontinental routes, suggest to me they have a very favourable cost base even, compared to the others.

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