VLM Airlines news 2017

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
JustPlanes
Posts: 1712
Joined: 11 Aug 2008, 21:27
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by JustPlanes »

Its easy for us to just comment... running these airlines is another story but boy what a soup... F50 flights from Antwerp to London, Maribor to Zurich, charters with an A320 and Brussels to China with a wide body... Just missing is a connection from Charleroi to Liege with an Embraer 120 ;)

How about the 1st year we run Fokker 50s and do that well... build the routes and passengers and once thats running smooth we can look at the next step... how on earth do you do well running little props around Europe... 1-2 A320s on charters and 1 long haul plane to China... not to mention that neither of those 3 interconnect whatsoever.

My 2 cents... if I was VLM I would look for cooperation... be it with Air Belgium to feed the long hauls for example.... be it with TUI to run smaller routes that don't work on the E190 specially from Antwerp... plenty of destinations they could do... granted its harder to do low cost on a small plane like that but not impossible...

And as far as Air Belgium... I wonder what they're thinking after delaying their start several times all the while Hainan is adding flights to BRU, Cathay is starting up the very route they want and now VLM may start China...

saratoga
Posts: 220
Joined: 04 Apr 2006, 00:00

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by saratoga »

I agree, it looks all a bit messy. There is a lack of identity in this new VLM story. A bit of this, a bit of that. Happy to see that Mr Heinzmann is back though.

Perhaps in the end it will a less blury.

User avatar
Yuqu12
Posts: 483
Joined: 04 Mar 2016, 09:41

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Yuqu12 »

DannyVDB wrote: 29 Nov 2017, 07:27 I also saw the A320 in BRU yesterday. Will they also operate from there ... ?
D
Apparantly, the A320 flies once a week as a charter to Eskisehir.

nordikcam
Posts: 1202
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by nordikcam »

Yuqu12 wrote: 29 Nov 2017, 13:21
DannyVDB wrote: 29 Nov 2017, 07:27 I also saw the A320 in BRU yesterday. Will they also operate from there ... ?
D
Apparantly, the A320 flies once a week as a charter to Eskisehir.
I flew yesterday to LYS and back. Two VLM airbus were parked @BRU.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by sn26567 »

JustPlanes wrote: 29 Nov 2017, 07:32 Its easy for us to just comment... running these airlines is another story but boy what a soup... F50 flights from Antwerp to London, Maribor to Zurich, charters with an A320 and Brussels to China with a wide body... Just missing is a connection from Charleroi to Liege with an Embraer 120 ;)

How about the 1st year we run Fokker 50s and do that well... build the routes and passengers and once thats running smooth we can look at the next step... how on earth do you do well running little props around Europe... 1-2 A320s on charters and 1 long haul plane to China... not to mention that neither of those 3 interconnect whatsoever.

My 2 cents... if I was VLM I would look for cooperation... be it with Air Belgium to feed the long hauls for example.... be it with TUI to run smaller routes that don't work on the E190 specially from Antwerp... plenty of destinations they could do... granted its harder to do low cost on a small plane like that but not impossible...

And as far as Air Belgium... I wonder what they're thinking after delaying their start several times all the while Hainan is adding flights to BRU, Cathay is starting up the very route they want and now VLM may start China...
Good analysis. VLM seems to lack a coherent strategy.

Christian Heinzman might be able to bring in some vision as a real connoisseur of the airline industry at KLM and Luxair(although he has also been at the helm of our national railways SNCB/NMBS).
André
ex Sabena #26567

Klausenburg
Posts: 39
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 22:14

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Klausenburg »

Christian Heinzman was general manager of Tarom between 2012-2016. Probably a more important experience for him then Luxair or KLM, because, as he put it, working for the state-owned carrier was harsher then working in Albania or Bangladesh. Among his achievements were reducing loss by 75%. However he couln't take any important strategical decissions as political support lacked. After he left, things got back to disarray as the loss in 2017 will be five times the bigger then in 2016!

Haplek
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 Sep 2017, 16:56
Location: Slovenia

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Haplek »

So... as the following writing is a BIG topic in Slovenia in the past days, I will write something here too.

Mayor of Maribor, dr. Andrej Fištravec announced that SHS Aviation and China State Construction Engineering Corporation (CSCEC) signed a contract for complete major plan of Maribor Edvard Rusjan Airport (MBX). The mayor announced that SHS Aviation is going to invest €660 million. And yes, that is not a mistake, that is the astronomic number mayor announced. He said that it was signed in Budapest at the sitting of 16+1 Initiative as a part of "One Belt, One Road" programme. CSCEC is the biggest civil engineering company on the planet.

Two Slovenian ministries (one for infrastructure and one for economic development), however claimed all of the announcements untrue. As the MBX is owned by Republic of Slovenia and SHS Aviation being only concessionaire of MBX, SHS Aviation is prohibited to do (build) anything without knowing (allowing) or cooperation of Slovenian Government. The minister for economic development, Zdravko Počivalšek told the ministry was not informed about anything on the topic. The major of Maribor, Andrej Fištravec, however returned that both ministries were informed already 3 days before the mysterious contract was signed. Mayor Fištravec also applied that all of the instances should meet to start the project.
He meant:
  • Aerodrom Maribor
  • SHS Aviation
  • CSCEC
  • Ministry of Economic Development and Technology
  • Ministry of Infrastructure
My opinion is that there is something behind the story but who knows what. But I can not believe a word to the mayor Fištravec.

Some English articles I found on the topic:

http://www.sloveniatimes.com/maribor-ai ... 60m-revamp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuter ... rport.html

For any further questions, just simply comment. As the topic is bigger and interesting and there are already some more news in the media in compare to what I have written, do not hesitate to ask.

I wish you all a pleasant evening!

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by sn26567 »

Haplek wrote: 01 Dec 2017, 21:56 SHS Aviation is going to invest €660 million in MBX.
That looks like big news indeed. But hard to believe. SHS Aviation has already difficulties in acquiring planes for its core business. Why would they invest to expand an airport that they don't own? And from where would they get the money? Certainly not from current operations.

Thanks for the information, and please keep us informed of the follow-up.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Haplek
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 Sep 2017, 16:56
Location: Slovenia

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Haplek »

Thank you, sn26567, for your comment. :D

Of course it is hard to believe. The number is astronomic. Maybe I would believe it if there was one 0 less (€66 million). But even than it would be hard to believe.

So... ta answer your question... To make it clear, SHS Aviation has 3 subsidiaries. These are:
  • VLM Airlines Belgium
  • VLM Airlines Slovenia
  • Aerodrom Maribor
Aerodrom Maribor is the company which runs Maribor Airport (MBX). This year they obtained concession to operate with state-owned infrastructure at MBX. Some facts from the contract:
  • Aerodrom Maribor may operate MBX (infrastructure and equipment) for 15 years with possibility of extension for another 5 years
  • Aerodrom Marobor must develop passenger and cargo traffic at the airport
  • Aerodrom Maribor is obliged to pay €95,000 rent for the airport per month
So why is SHS Aviation interested in expending the airport they do not own...
  • They may operate with it for at least following 15 years
  • They also operate own airline. They can have a pure monopoly at MBX. For instance, if some other airline decides to operate the route to MBX, they can charge them as much as they want. Easily so much that operation of some second airline could not be profitable
  • If they develop MBX good, they can extend the contract of concession
  • Just imagine. One company that operates an airport and owns an airline. Operations of an airline from its "own" airport can be free.
And the other question, financing. You are fully right that SHS can not finance this investment from its own funds. Only maybe if they had at least €200,000 net profit per passenger. :lol: :lol: It was reported that SHS Aviation would fund the project from its own funds and also take some bank loans. If SHS Aviation really has so much money than it probably comes from China (As construction company, CSCEC that was reported that will carry out the project). I am also wondering where Aerodrom Maribor (SHS Aviation) get those €95,000 per month to pay for the airport. The ministry officials said that rent is always payed fully and on time (as predicted by contract). Also here is explicit that money is coming from elsewhere. Keep in mind that there is almost no traffic at all at the airport. This year the number of passengers is predicted to be below 6,000. Btw, current terminal was finished only some years ago and it has the capacity of at least 600,000 passengers per year.

So, I believe that this topic is one of the best for the people who love speculations and conspiracy theories. As there is so much rumours and just some few facts. The optimists could say that all is a part of Chinese major plan for its influence in Europe.

I will write some comments and keep you informed when I will have some spare time to write. Have a nice day!

http://www.exyuaviation.com/2017/12/mar ... llion.html

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11734
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by luchtzak »

Haplek wrote: 02 Dec 2017, 09:49
  • They also operate own airline. They can have a pure monopoly at MBX. For instance, if some other airline decides to operate the route to MBX, they can charge them as much as they want. Easily so much that operation of some second airline could not be profitable
Will the EU agree on the monopoly position at the airport ? I doubt that ...

Haplek
Posts: 69
Joined: 18 Sep 2017, 16:56
Location: Slovenia

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Haplek »

luchtzak wrote: 02 Dec 2017, 12:44 Will the EU agree on the monopoly position at the airport ? I doubt that ...
The way to the point where EU might be worried or even act against the monopoly at MBX is long. Honestly, I believe the way is so long that SHS Aviation will never make so far.

But do not understand me wrong, I wish all the best to SHS Aviation and good work on their project.

Klausenburg
Posts: 39
Joined: 27 Sep 2016, 22:14

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Klausenburg »

luchtzak wrote: 02 Dec 2017, 12:44
Will the EU agree on the monopoly position at the airport ? I doubt that ...
There is already at least one such case I know of. Bacau Airport (BCM) in Romania was modernized and is operated by Blue Air (BMS). The entity that manages the airport must offer the same conditions to all interested operators. Otherwise, there is no problem. And it shouldn't be for a small airport like Maribor also. Is not like airlines would fight to fly from Bacau or Maribor...

Not Real
Posts: 41
Joined: 03 Dec 2017, 09:20

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Not Real »

They just started and they are already taking very strange decisions...

Acid-drop
Posts: 2883
Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 00:00
Location: Liège, BE
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Acid-drop »

"VLM Airlines plans to lease one A330-200 aircraft and is considering serving Shenzhen from either Brussels or Liege from as early as Apr-2018."
Are they really hesitating between the 2 airports ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

SR20
Posts: 691
Joined: 17 Apr 2017, 09:14

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by SR20 »

Acid-drop wrote: 03 Dec 2017, 13:44 "VLM Airlines plans to lease one A330-200 aircraft and is considering serving Shenzhen from either Brussels or Liege from as early as Apr-2018."
Are they really hesitating between the 2 airports ?
If they have cooperation plans with the chinese tour-operator U-Tour, that could be an explanation !
U-Tour used to bring chinese tourists at Liege the past 2 years !

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by sn26567 »

On the other hand, VLM had a bad experience at Liege in the past: many destinations opened at once and closed after only a few weeks...
André
ex Sabena #26567

DIBO
Posts: 672
Joined: 28 Mar 2009, 14:54

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by DIBO »

sn26567 wrote: 03 Dec 2017, 14:45VLM had a bad experience at Liege in the past
that had nothing to do with LGG, but all with bad management on VLM's side

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by sn26567 »

DIBO wrote: 03 Dec 2017, 15:49
sn26567 wrote: 03 Dec 2017, 14:45VLM had a bad experience at Liege in the past
that had nothing to do with LGG, but all with bad management on VLM's side
I fully agree. I never said that LGG was the culprit.
André
ex Sabena #26567

User avatar
cs100
Posts: 7
Joined: 01 Sep 2017, 14:34

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by cs100 »

In the METRO, a newspaper, there is a travel article on going to Antwerp with VLM.
.
rrrrr.pdf
(1.06 MiB) Downloaded 320 times

Mariborchanka
Posts: 41
Joined: 28 Dec 2016, 15:00

Re: VLM Airlines news 2017

Post by Mariborchanka »

VLM flights from Ljubljana (LJU) to Brussels from 8. 1. to 23. 3. 2018?

Image
___
Screenshot: Flight Schedule (29. 10. 2017 - 24. 3. 2018) Ljubljana airport, source: http://bit.ly/2BiEIG3
(odhodi = Departures, prihodi = Arrivals)

Post Reply