Ryanair in 2017

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DeltaWiskey
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 18:45Just one example: when a Norwegian flight from the U.S. arrives 3 hours late, the connection is gone. On which flight will Ryanair then accommodate the delayed passengers? Next flights are all full.
In that case it isn't Ryanair's problem. The Norwegian flight was delayed, so Norwegian has to provide care (foods, drinks, accommodation, etc) and reroute the passengers at the first possible opportunity.

The other way around, if the Ryanair flight is delayed and the passenger misses his connection to the US, it's Ryanair that has to accommodate the affected passengers, and often also has to pay EC261/2004 of 600 euro (provided the total distance is >3500km).

I can easily see why Ryanair does want to test the concept on a small scale and I would't be surprised if they eventually back out of it. I don't really see it being worth for a carrier like Ryanair, one that already has one of the highest load factors in the industry, as well as the lowest fares.
The carrier the operates the long haul flights will benefit the most, that isn't Ryanair in this case.

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

DeltaWiskey wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 19:31
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 18:45Just one example: when a Norwegian flight from the U.S. arrives 3 hours late, the connection is gone. On which flight will Ryanair then accommodate the delayed passengers? Next flights are all full.
In that case it isn't Ryanair's problem. The Norwegian flight was delayed, so Norwegian has to provide care (foods, drinks, accommodation, etc) and reroute the passengers at the first possible opportunity.
Agree. But then, what long haul airline is interested in such a feeder? When the long haul is delayed, example a weather delay (this no indemnity to be paid), it's gonna be chaos upon arrival: Ryanair will be unable to rebook them onto a next flight. Then what? There's no interline agreement with another carrier. Book them on a train from Cork to Brussels?
DeltaWiskey wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 19:31
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 18:45Just one example: when a Norwegian flight from the U.S. arrives 3 hours late, the connection is gone. On which flight will Ryanair then accommodate the delayed passengers? Next flights are all full.
The other way around, if the Ryanair flight is delayed and the passenger misses his connection to the US, it's Ryanair that has to accommodate the affected passengers, and often also has to pay EC261/2004 of 600 euro (provided the total distance is >3500km).
And that's why those negociations are lasting endlessly: Ryanair refuses that responsability. They only wants to provide feeder flights when the long haul accepts all responsability. So far, they haven't found one.

The only reason I see why Ryanair sends out this press release every six months, is because the share price immediately increases. Much to joy of O'Leary, shareholder himself (his package must be worth 35m-50m Euro by now, I think).

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by sn26567 »

Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 23:44 And that's why those negociations are lasting endlessly: Ryanair refuses that responsability. They only wants to provide feeder flights when the long haul accepts all responsability. So far, they haven't found one.
Apparently they found two, from September: Norwegian and Aer Lingus.
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sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 23:44
DeltaWiskey wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 19:31
In that case it isn't Ryanair's problem. The Norwegian flight was delayed, so Norwegian has to provide care (foods, drinks, accommodation, etc) and reroute the passengers at the first possible opportunity.
Agree. But then, what long haul airline is interested in such a feeder? When the long haul is delayed, example a weather delay (this no indemnity to be paid), it's gonna be chaos upon arrival: Ryanair will be unable to rebook them onto a next flight. Then what? There's no interline agreement with another carrier. Book them on a train from Cork to Brussels.
I'd suggest you keep your false presumptions to your self as Norwegian has already states they will interline with FR soon. Like I said in another topic this is causing many breaktracks in legacy Manager's underwear in boardrooms accross Europe. I fear the european aviation landscape will shift dramatically over the coming years and legacies will ever more depend on their premium passengers for their income

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 09:41
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 23:44 But then, what long haul airline is interested in such a feeder? When the long haul is delayed, example a weather delay (this no indemnity to be paid), it's gonna be chaos upon arrival: Ryanair will be unable to rebook them onto a next flight. Then what? There's no interline agreement with another carrier. Book them on a train from Cork to Brussels.
I'd suggest you keep your false presumptions to your self as Norwegian has already states they will interline with FR soon. Like I said in another topic this is causing many breaktracks in legacy Manager's underwear in boardrooms accross Europe. I fear the european aviation landscape will shift dramatically over the coming years and legacies will ever more depend on their premium passengers for their income
False presumptions? It's a false pregnancy call by Ryanair. Even an elephant pregnancy lasts less then this feeder agreement.

April 2016:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/norwegi ... principle/
and
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 42763.html
October 2015:
https://50skyshades.com/news/airlines/n ... nair-close
August 2015:
https://www.businessworld.ie/article.ph ... ers-560266

Stij
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Stij »

I guess we'll see soon enough whether it happens or not.

Anyhow, one must be pretty adventurous to do this: if one thing goes wrong in high season, it can get seriously wrong when all flights are fully booked. Indeed, one is protected by EU regulations, but as we all know, it's not always easy to enforce them...

In short: if it happens... I leave it to the backpackers...

BTW when I check a round-trip in October on Norwegian and SN between LGW / BRU and JFK, both cheapest fares Norwegian is at 401€ including nothing and SN is at 480€ including everything. Yes cheaper, but not disruptive...

Cheers,

Stij

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 10:00
sean1982 wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 09:41
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 23:44 But then, what long haul airline is interested in such a feeder? When the long haul is delayed, example a weather delay (this no indemnity to be paid), it's gonna be chaos upon arrival: Ryanair will be unable to rebook them onto a next flight. Then what? There's no interline agreement with another carrier. Book them on a train from Cork to Brussels.
I'd suggest you keep your false presumptions to your self as Norwegian has already states they will interline with FR soon. Like I said in another topic this is causing many breaktracks in legacy Manager's underwear in boardrooms accross Europe. I fear the european aviation landscape will shift dramatically over the coming years and legacies will ever more depend on their premium passengers for their income
False presumptions? It's a false pregnancy call by Ryanair. Even an elephant pregnancy lasts less then this feeder agreement.

April 2016:
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/norwegi ... principle/
and
http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 42763.html
October 2015:
https://50skyshades.com/news/airlines/n ... nair-close
August 2015:
https://www.businessworld.ie/article.ph ... ers-560266
If you think something as complex as interline agreements are negociated in two weeks you know less about aviation than I thought. To put things into perspective ..: something "as simple" as a Cabin refurbishment takes about 3 years to plan

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 10:48If you think something as complex as interline agreements are negociated in two weeks you know less about aviation than I thought. To put things into perspective ..: something "as simple" as a Cabin refurbishment takes about 3 years to plan.
I don't know about cabin refurbishment plans, but I have participated to negociations about add-on / interline /feeder agreements quite often (as third party). Never felt asleep because those meetings were always very short. Implementation usually was a matter of days, sometimes a few weeks: the time needed for the input of the booking codes and the MCT in the computer systems (MCT = minimum connecting time).

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 12:13
sean1982 wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 10:48If you think something as complex as interline agreements are negociated in two weeks you know less about aviation than I thought. To put things into perspective ..: something "as simple" as a Cabin refurbishment takes about 3 years to plan.
I don't know about cabin refurbishment plans, but I have participated to negociations about add-on / interline /feeder agreements quite often (as third party). Never felt asleep because those meetings were always very short. Implementation usually was a matter of days, sometimes a few weeks: the time needed for the input of the booking codes and the MCT in the computer systems (MCT = minimum connecting time).
In case of legacies in the same alliance that might be true ... this is however a different kettle of fish

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 13:03In case of legacies in the same alliance that might be true ... this is however a different kettle of fish
Same alliance or different alliance doens't matter for feeder negociations. Although "same alliance" will probably mean that a codesharing exists, so no need to negociate an add-on fare then.

Ryanair feeding Norwegian is a huge risk for Norwegian: what if the Norwegian US-EU is delayed and passengers have to be rebooked, but all next FR-flights are full the same day?

The last rumour I've heard about those negociations, is that Ryanair proposed that Norwegian would have responsability for all hotels & meals & rebooking costs (no matter who is responsible), whilst Ryanair would have responsability for eventual EU-indemnities (no matter who is responsible).

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by sn26567 »

Ryanair confirms it will feed Aer Lingus and Norwegian flights from the autumn

Ryanair will start feeding passengers to Aer Lingus and Norwegian flights from September, according to chief marketing officer Kenny Jacobs.

Ryanair eventually expects to work with all IAG-owned airlines, which apart from Aer Lingus also include Iberia, British Airways and Vueling. Ryanair also expects to eventually have agreements with carriers such as Lufthansa and Air France-KLM.

The autumn launch is later than previously anticipated and Ryanair has been talking about sealing agreements with other carriers for some time. Chief executive Michael O'Leary has also held talks with embattled Alitalia about how it might feed its long-haul network.

Aer Lingus chief executive Stephen Kavanagh said last year that he anticipated some kind of passenger-sharing deal would be in operation with Ryanair by this summer.

However, the logistics and technical aspects of the agreements with Aer Lingus and Norwegian are likely to have delayed their roll-outs.

Ryanair is also finally getting around to starting its interlining service for its own passengers this month. That service will be deployed initially at Rome's Fiumicino airport from the end of this month.

Full story in The Irish Independent: http://www.independent.ie/business/iris ... 01537.html
André
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DIBO
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by DIBO »

DIBO in the TUI topic, wrote:@sean1982...within the legal borders of the tax/social security system.
Which can't be said about your former employer and its shady 'self-employed' contractors scheme's, hence more and more FR pilots all over Europe getting prosecuted by tax and/or social security authorities. These are now fully and totally screwed...

Poiu
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Poiu »

DIBO wrote: 08 Apr 2017, 11:33
DIBO in the TUI topic, wrote:@sean1982...within the legal borders of the tax/social security system.
Which can't be said about your former employer and its shady 'self-employed' contractors scheme's, hence more and more FR pilots all over Europe getting prosecuted by tax and/or social security authorities. These are now fully and totally screwed...
Here we go again....

SN, TCAB and TUI all make use of self-employed contract pilots!!
The only difference is that FR pays a lot more than the others.

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

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Ryanair plans to further expand its operations in Serbia in the coming period but has ruled out flights from Belgrade for the time being due to high costs.

Ryanair plans to open its first Spanish C-check maintenance hangar in Seville in early 2018, following the airline’s US$8.4 million investment in Seville Airport. The facility will accommodate the airline’s B737-800 fleet.
André
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Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote: 07 Apr 2017, 15:40 Ryanair is also finally getting around to starting its interlining service for its own passengers this month. That service will be deployed initially at Rome's Fiumicino airport from the end of this month.
Minimum connecting time is three hours.

Stij
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Stij »

Passenger wrote: 13 Apr 2017, 12:09 Minimum connecting time is three hours.
As in backpacker connecting time... count me out...

Stij

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

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Passenger wrote: 13 Apr 2017, 12:09 Minimum connecting time is three hours.
Also for passengers without checked bags?
André
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Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote: 13 Apr 2017, 16:17
Passenger wrote: 13 Apr 2017, 12:09 Minimum connecting time is three hours.
Also for passengers without checked bags?
I don't know yet. It was a short notice on Travel360, without details. There is little or no practical information available about that test at Rome FCO, apart from what the press writes about that press conference from 6th April. There is no guarantuee that the above source is correct, though I do trust Jan Peeters quite well.

Jan Peeters / Travel360 today (12th april) writes that minimum connection time will be 3 hours. On 6th April, I predicted 4 hours:
Passenger wrote: 06 Apr 2017, 18:45 I don't believe this. The reason why they done accept connecting flights, is because of the European legislation regarding delayed and cancelled flights. Today, Ryanair is avoiding all costs when a FR-passenger misses his/her connection to another FR-flight, when the delay is within EU-261/2004 limits. When Ryanair accepts multi-flight tickets, they will be held responsible when a connection goes wrong, no matter the reason for the missed conection. And even when the delay is within EU-261/2004 limits. I wonder what they will impose as Minimum Connecting Time: 4 hours?

sean1982
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by sean1982 »

No you predicted it wouldnt happen

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair in 2017

Post by Passenger »

sean1982 wrote: 13 Apr 2017, 17:43 No you predicted it wouldnt happen
Indeed. And I stay with my prediction.

The only thing that we know so far, is the announcement "a test is planned at FCO this summer". But for who: for new bookings as from today? For existing files = those rare passengers who have booked 2 x FR-flights with a transfer at FCO? and with at least 3 hours transfer-time?

And seriously, can you call a MCT 3 hours "connecting flights"? With FR's low daily frequencies on each destination, this 3 hours will easily increase to 5 or 6.

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