Brussels region noise regulation

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

Fairfax wrote: 17 Feb 2018, 20:36
lumumba wrote: 17 Feb 2018, 13:57
I just propose what was already done in other airports...for my part you can buy or isolated houses here in Brussels but it will be very expensive....
And yes it's not because I'm not with the mainstream I can not give my opinion.....

And CDG,LHR or San Francisco or even AMS are in less densely populated areas and there runways are not pointing directly at the city centre....
Still a very lame excuse. So lets recap: you want an airport for your capital - where you live - but you don't want any aircraft above your head, notwithstanding the fact that you use that same airport frequently. Am I right? That almost sounds like Mme Céline Fremault, appeasing her bourgeois and NIMBY electorate. Are you sure you are on the right forum? Does Ecolo have a forum?
But 80% of the take off of Brussels Airport is passing over my head....so I now what I speak about.
That's not the question it's more the night flights and how the airport will grow the problem...
Please make a discussion don't make it personal!
And Mme Fremault is not from Ecolo but every political party here in Brussels is agree with Mme Fremault (Flemish and from the French community) I'm not sure about NVA but that's another story....
Last edited by lumumba on 18 Feb 2018, 00:35, edited 2 times in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

ostair
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by ostair »

Can I compare this discussion with I have to travel too far to get public transport but I don't want a train/tram/bus running in my street/backyard and for sure not a stop in front of my house.

If BLX want to be the heart of Europe then they should get all the flights.
We have a king of all Belgians, well lift te ban of flying over Laeken.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

ostair wrote: 17 Feb 2018, 22:58 Can I compare this discussion with I have to travel too far to get public transport but I don't want a train/tram/bus running in my street/backyard and for sure not a stop in front of my house.

If BLX want to be the heart of Europe then they should get all the flights.
We have a king of all Belgians, well lift te ban of flying over Laeken.
But that's not true everybody is agree to have an airport...the question is how to grow and do we want night flights.
I leave about 200m of Metro and train stop and I'm very happy and live without owning a car...
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

lumumba wrote: 17 Feb 2018, 22:43
Fairfax wrote: 17 Feb 2018, 20:36
lumumba wrote: 17 Feb 2018, 13:57
I just propose what was already done in other airports...for my part you can buy or isolated houses here in Brussels but it will be very expensive....
And yes it's not because I'm not with the mainstream I can not give my opinion.....

And CDG,LHR or San Francisco or even AMS are in less densely populated areas and there runways are not pointing directly at the city centre....
Still a very lame excuse. So lets recap: you want an airport for your capital - where you live - but you don't want any aircraft above your head, notwithstanding the fact that you use that same airport frequently. Am I right? That almost sounds like Mme Céline Fremault, appeasing her bourgeois and NIMBY electorate. Are you sure you are on the right forum? Does Ecolo have a forum?
But 80% of the take off of Brussels Airport is passing over my head....so I now what I speak about.
That's not the question it's more the night flights and how the airport will grow the problem...
Please make a discussion don't make it personal!
And Mme Fremault is not from Ecolo but every political party here in Brussels is agree with Mme Fremault (Flemish and from the French community) I'm not sure about NVA but that's another story....
Personal? People like you destroy jobs. Don't be hypocrite - don't want aircraft above your head? Don't use the airport and travel by train. If Brussels needs an airport, they will share the burden. Point Final.

If it were up to me, you would be blacklisted with all airlines.

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KriVa
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by KriVa »

Keep this discussion civilised, and don't start attacking one another.
First and final warning.
Thomas

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

There is a big difference between 10 and 25 km.
And there's an equal difference in size between Brussels and London.

MOD EDIT: Censored, I warned you.

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

KriVa wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 11:06 Keep this discussion civilised, and don't start attacking one another.
First and final warning.
Wasn't this forum pro-aviation, pro-airport and more importantly pro airport jobs? These people can go elsewhere with their counter-productive and fake arguments. I find the very offensive for the airport community.

Poiu
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Poiu »

Fairfax wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 12:04
KriVa wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 11:06 Keep this discussion civilised, and don't start attacking one another.
First and final warning.
Wasn't this forum pro-aviation, pro-airport and more importantly pro airport jobs? These people can go elsewhere with their counter-productive and fake arguments. I find the very offensive for the airport community.
It still is a pro-aviation forum and even more a pro SN Forum, but that doesn’t mean you can become personal and insulting!
On the topic itself, I think Patrice has a point, nightflights from an airport which is close to a densly populated area should be abolished in 2018. A night ban on take offs from eg 2330:to 600 is not unreasonable.

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KriVa
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by KriVa »

Poiu wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 13:13 On the topic itself, I think Patrice has a point, nightflights from an airport which is close to a densly populated area should be abolished in 2018. A night ban on take offs from eg 2330:to 600 is not unreasonable.
Why "should" they be abolished? Having lived close to airport(s) pretty much my entire life, I can't say the flights, whether by night or day, ever bothered me.
I do understand people are inconvenienced by them from time to time, but abolishing night flights seems like a bridge to far in my eyes.
Air traffic is projected to grow quite strongly over the next coming years, it would be foolish not to allow one of the main economic benefactors of the country to take advantage of this.
Keep in mind, I'm NOT advocating a "carte blanche" here. BRU is situated close to several densely populated areas, so a reasonable effort must be made (and has been made in the past) to keep neighbours somewhat happy.
What a lot of people seemingly fail to realise, is that BRU is a neighbour of these areas as well, respect really must go in two directions.
Comparing the situation we have today to the situation we had in the past (BRU is no longer a big DHL hub, and the silent nights also improve quality of life for nearby areas) plus the undeniable fact that newer generations of airplanes are MUCH quieter than their predecessors, really shows how a complete ban on night flights just isn't a realistic option.
Fairfax wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 12:04 Wasn't this forum pro-aviation, pro-airport and more importantly pro airport jobs? These people can go elsewhere with their counter-productive and fake arguments. I find the very offensive for the airport community.
Sure we are, but that doesn't mean there's no place for a discussion with reasonable arguments from both sides. Start playing the man instead of the game, though, and you're out.
Thomas

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

KriVa wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 13:27
Sure we are, but that doesn't mean there's no place for a discussion with reasonable arguments from both sides. Start playing the man instead of the game, though, and you're out.
Reasonable arguments: Brussels needs an airport and has all advantages of this airport. As such they will also share the burden. If necessary, call in foreign experts from ICAO/EASA to assist.

The fact of the matter is that there is an hidden agenda and political game behind all this, with CDH and MR as antagonists. As so many things in this failed state, there is always politics behind it. It is impossible to discuss this without referring to politics. Mr Bellot is cowardly trying to push the "vliegwet" to the next legislation, being afraid of the MR electorate in Brussels. These people simply don't care about aviation jobs.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

To be clear if we can find a reasonable solution to keep the night flights it would be great everybody wants to keep the jobs here...
But it's impossible to let the night flights after the day flights take off over Evere,Schaarbeek and Woluwe it's simply has this.
Sure Brussels has to take his part but it does already taking the biggest part of the take off.
And yes Brussels is more densely populated and this has to be taken in account.
Last edited by lumumba on 19 Feb 2018, 14:40, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

jan_olieslagers wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 11:58
There is a big difference between 10 and 25 km.
And there's an equal difference in size between Brussels and London.

MOD EDIT: Censored, I warned you.
You did not answer about my proposition to isolated or buy houses in Kortenberg and Erps Kwerps?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by jan_olieslagers »

I will not discuss with you as long as you deny that Heathrow's runways point directly at the city centre.
That is blatantly untrue and you know it. And the difference in distance is not relevant either, it is made up for by the difference in city size. Indeed Heathrow is much more surrounded by buildings than Zaventem.

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

lumumba wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 14:38 To be clear if we can find a reasonable solution to keep the night flights it would be great everybody wants to keep the jobs here...
But it's impossible to let the night flights after the day flights take off over Evere,Schaarbeek and Woluwe it's simply has this.
Sure Brussels has to take his part but it does already taking the biggest part of the take off.
And yes Brussels is more densely populated and this has to be taken in account.
Again:
The fact of the matter is that there is an hidden agenda and political game behind all this, with CDH and MR as antagonists. As so many things in this failed state, there is always politics behind it. It is impossible to discuss this without referring to politics. Mr Bellot is cowardly trying to push the "vliegwet" to the next legislation, being afraid of the MR electorate in Brussels. These people simply don't care about aviation jobs.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by lumumba »

Fairfax wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 15:08
lumumba wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 14:38 To be clear if we can find a reasonable solution to keep the night flights it would be great everybody wants to keep the jobs here...
But it's impossible to let the night flights after the day flights take off over Evere,Schaarbeek and Woluwe it's simply has this.
Sure Brussels has to take his part but it does already taking the biggest part of the take off.
And yes Brussels is more densely populated and this has to be taken in account.
Again:
The fact of the matter is that there is an hidden agenda and political game behind all this, with CDH and MR as antagonists. As so many things in this failed state, there is always politics behind it. It is impossible to discuss this without referring to politics. Mr Bellot is cowardly trying to push the "vliegwet" to the next legislation, being afraid of the MR electorate in Brussels. These people simply don't care about aviation jobs.
He is not the first one to push to problem further away after the next election,it's like that for 20 years already.

About the political parties all the Flemish political parties here in Brussels VLD,CD&V,SPA,GROEN etc are on the same line you now .
They all agree with the Brussels Noise regulation so it's not Black or White it's not Flemish or Walloon but for sure it has to be a political solution.
And nobody wants to take it because it will hurt anyway!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 »

I had the opportunity to discuss with Mr Bellot. He is an engineer by education, and thus very pragmatic. He tries to solve problems in a rational way, by sequences.

He had started to find a panel of international experts to give him a neutral opinion about the BRU noise issue. Only one company had submitted an offer, which had to be rejected because some of the experts involved had a relation with Brussels Airport. A new tender has to be organised, and it is impossible that the winner will issue conclusions before the next general election. Bellot is not a coward, but the first minister since a long time who tries to find a genuine solution.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

lumumba wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 15:17

About the political parties all the Flemish political parties here in Brussels VLD,CD&V,SPA,GROEN etc are on the same line you know .
Of course they are. Let's not get started on the "Flemish" political parties in Brussels. Ever heard of the "Flamand de service?"

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

sn26567 wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 15:35 I had the opportunity to discuss with Mr Bellot. He is an engineer by education, and thus very pragmatic. He tries to solve problems in a rational way, by sequences.

He had started to find a panel of international experts to give him a neutral opinion about the BRU noise issue. Only one company had submitted an offer, which had to be rejected because some of the experts involved had a relation with Brussels Airport. A new tender has to be organised, and it is impossible that the winner will issue conclusions before the next general election. Bellot is not a coward, but the first minister since a long time who tries to find a genuine solution.
And I am quite sure that he thinks about the MR electorate in Brussels as well. In fact there is no need for a tender; ICAO have specialists available; just give a call to Montreal.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 »

Mr Bellot is from Rochefort in the Ardennes (also down-to-earth people) and doesn't give a damn about the MR electorate in Brussels. And the normal procedure for working for the State is a call for tender.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Fairfax
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Fairfax »

sn26567 wrote: 19 Feb 2018, 17:27 Mr Bellot is from Rochefort in the Ardennes (also down-to-earth people) and doesn't give a damn about the MR electorate in Brussels. And the normal procedure for working for the State is a call for tender.
Really? You can be sure that he already received some calls from the MR electorate in La Capitale. The MR needs to be ready for the next communal elections.

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