Brussels region noise regulation

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Atlantis »

Passenger wrote: 25 Apr 2017, 23:34
FredATC wrote: 25 Apr 2017, 22:35 To bring grist to the mill !
Tomorrow on the french speaking radio "La Première" between 12:00 and 13:00 : https://www.rtbf.be/info/article/detail ... id=9588463
I'm already looking forward to the answers to this surrealistic question: "...Faut-il délocaliser l’aéroport national en Wallonie? Voyez-vous Charleroi ou Liège acquérir une dimension nationale?..." Do we have to move the national airport to Wallonia? Do you think that CRL or LGG can obtain a national dimension?

(like we say in the north: zot zijn doet geen zeer)
If they think to be smart to move the national airport to LGG or CRL than they have completely no brains.
Moving closer to LGG or CRL means closer to Germany and France. No single international or intercontinental airline who will interested anymore to fly to Belgium as they can fly to Germany and France. It's only a few kms difference. Business people are completely not interested to fly to an airport in the middle of nowhere and to drive after 2 hours to reach BRU or Flanders and the seaports where you have the most economical activity of this country.
BTW, VLM and BMI tried already in the past from LGG to offer flights and it was completely not a success. You need more to lose??

Think twice French part of the country if you want to lose more than it is already.

Find a solution for the current airports. LGG freight of Fedex and others, CRL is a low cost airport and BRU handle everything.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 »

Passenger wrote: 26 Apr 2017, 17:22 RTBf, "Débats Premiére": audio is 23 minutes 52 seconds:
https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/detail_debats ... id=2207319

It was een debat onder gelijkgezinden with three guests: Arnauld Feist (Brussels Airport), Luc Partoune (LGG Airport) and André Claudon (?), aviation expert.
André Clodong is the name of the aviation expert. You can find him on LinkedIn.

Very civilised debate between reasonable people. Also reasonable statements by most of the intervening listeners. A very important statement by the CEO of LGG: "it's the airlines which decide where they want to land".

It was thus useless to fear for the worst. And nobody wants to move the activities of BRU to the regional airports.

About the noise issue, André Clodong says that the best solution would be to ask the experts of Eurocontrol, who have the tools to decide on the best routes in an independent way, without political interference.
André
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gumblebee
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by gumblebee »

Passenger wrote: 26 Apr 2017, 17:22 RTBf, "Débats Premiére": audio is 23 minutes 52 seconds:
https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/detail_debats ... id=2207319
I always felt the idea among Flemish hardliners that french-speaking politicians are trying to move activities from Brussels Airport to airports in Wallonia was a bit of a conspiracy theory. It seems I was wrong.

Of course the basic problem with the Brussels noise regulations is that the Belgian Constitution didn't allow the Brussels authorities to impose these regulations directly on the federal aviation authorities nor on the airport which is situated in Flanders. The result is they had to impose them indirectly, on the airlines, who as a result are stuck between different regulatory regimes.

EBBU
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by EBBU »

About the noise issue, André Clodong says that the best solution would be to ask the experts of Eurocontrol, who have the tools to decide on the best routes in an independent way, without political interference.

:lol:

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by nordikcam »

The first sentence of the debate spelled out by the specialist is "moving the airport is a fiction"...la messe est globalement dite as we said in "french" ...

Acid-drop
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Acid-drop »

Find a solution for the current airports. LGG freight of Fedex and others, CRL is a low cost airport and BRU handle everything.
Almost.
BRU handles everything else. So business travelers basically... (Linate story)
But since most of the market is there it will remain quite big for sure
A very important statement by the CEO of LGG: "it's the airlines which decide where they want to land"
Indeed... and thats true already many years, noise issue or not
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by luchtzak »

Cargo airline air cargo global has left Brussels Airport due to the noise regulations ... (twitter @ful_lie / Belga)

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by sn26567 »

Ryanair has found a way to minimise the fees due to noise pollution:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair ... -brussels/
André
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TLspotting
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by TLspotting »

sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:43 Ryanair has found a way to minimise the fees due to noise pollution:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair ... -brussels/
They're smart !
And the next time,they'll fly with less fuel,to risk the security for their passengers or land at Charleroi for refueling btw ? :lol:
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Stij
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Stij »

sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:43 Ryanair has found a way to minimise the fees due to noise pollution:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair ... -brussels/
Would it be a problem for safety and / or capacity if everybody did this?

Cheers,

Stij

Passenger
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Passenger »

luchtzak wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:13 Cargo airline air cargo global has left Brussels Airport due to the noise regulations ... (twitter @ful_lie / Belga)
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-car ... s-airport/
So this must have been their last flight here:

9th May 2017 : Brussels -> Turkmenbashi -> Hong Kong:

luchtzak 2017 05 09 CCC813.jpg

TLspotting
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by TLspotting »

Passenger wrote: 11 May 2017, 15:27
luchtzak wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:13 Cargo airline air cargo global has left Brussels Airport due to the noise regulations ... (twitter @ful_lie / Belga)
https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-car ... s-airport/
So this must have been their last flight here:

9th May 2017 : Brussels -> Turkmenbashi -> Hong Kong:


luchtzak 2017 05 09 CCC813.jpg
Easy to find,only 2 747-4F :lol:
Hi. I'm Thibault Lapers. @ThibaultLapers & @TLspotting

Acid-drop
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Acid-drop »

sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:43 Ryanair has found a way to minimise the fees due to noise pollution:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair ... -brussels/
That's just the proof that the region was right to challenge the airlines and the airport.
There are solutions.

"those who wants to move forward will always find a solution, those who wants to get stuck will always find excuses".

On a long term, it seem clear the best way to go is a lengthening of a track, as suggested many times.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Hue

Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Hue »

Stij wrote: 11 May 2017, 15:20
sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:43 Ryanair has found a way to minimise the fees due to noise pollution:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair ... -brussels/
Would it be a problem for safety and / or capacity if everybody did this?

Cheers,

Stij
During weekend both rwy 19 and 25R can be in use for departure (noise dispersion). Sometimes planes have to land on rwy 19 with departures on 25R. In these cases, the full length policy for 25R means crossing an active runway & consequences for safety/capacity. Previously they always(!) prepared for B3 intersection to expedite departure.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Acid-drop wrote: 11 May 2017, 16:01
sn26567 wrote: 11 May 2017, 14:43 Ryanair has found a way to minimise the fees due to noise pollution:

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/ryanair ... -brussels/
That's just the proof that the region was right to challenge the airlines and the airport.
There are solutions.

"those who wants to move forward will always find a solution, those who wants to get stuck will always find excuses".

On a long term, it seem clear the best way to go is a lengthening of a track, as suggested many times.

What is proved here is that when one does not know what he is talking about, indeed a "solution" is easily found.
Seldom a good one though.

Indeed, the declared TORA, Take Off Run Available, of RWY 25R is 3638 metres i.e. from the threshold
AIP EBBR.png

And using the classic B1 or B3 will make you "loose" some precious distance
AIP EBBR RWY25R Intersection take off.png
AIP EBBR RWY25R Intersection take off.png (13.82 KiB) Viewed 3918 times
AIP EBBR AD layout.png
AIP EBBR AD layout.png (113.18 KiB) Viewed 3918 times

So of course starting the take-off run further East will bring you higher above the holy capital of Absurdistan but good luck trying to bring them all there instead of taking off from B1 or B3.
Of course, NYMBYs do not know nor care about what it takes to safely and efficiently manage the ground traffic. If all flights were to take off from the head of RWY25R you'll be seeing delays .... that probably the same persons will be complaining about if their little self is affected.


As you said Acid-Drop, relocating the RWY25L threshold will alleviate the problem especially because, thanks to the necessary parallel TWY to be built also, this will enable spreading the departures over two runways.
But even this is not an "easy solution".

H.A.

mad_fab
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by mad_fab »

Well, this only concern early morning flights, right? So the capacity at that time shouldn't be much of a problem.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by luchtzak »

Magma Aviation too has indicated that it will leave Brussels Airport if the uncertainty is not removed in the next few weeks.

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by luchtzak »

Brussels Airport press release about Air Cargo Global leaving

https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-car ... s-airport/

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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Acid-drop »

Who said its an easy solution ?
Its a proof there are options. That's already a lot.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Established02
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Re: Brussels region noise regulation

Post by Established02 »

luchtzak wrote: 11 May 2017, 18:00 Magma Aviation too has indicated that it will leave Brussels Airport if ...
What cargo flights does Magma operate at BRU?

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