Brussels region noise regulation

[Poiu]

Everybody is negotiating here and what I think is that the Brussels government want a solution for this national government.
So NVA takes is responsibility in this legislature ...
And want NVA try to do is to win time ....
That's my opinion.

????

[Passenger]

Everybody is negotiating here and what I think is that the Brussels government want a solution for this national government.
So NVA takes is responsibility in this legislature ...
And want NVA try to do is to win time ....
That's my opinion.

I don't know what your sources are, but you should really try to check other sources too. Like most people from Flanders do: we read the press from the north and the south. We listen to Bourgeois, we listen to Vanhengel, we listen to Vervoort and other PS ministers, we listen to the cdH and Ecolo boys/girl. And this results in a different view (= for most of us).

The biggest problem is that the Brussels government doesn't want to negociate: they are backed by a arrest/arrêt of 2004 or 2005 from the French chamber of the Raad van State / Conseil D'Etat. And the Dutch chamber cannot overule that. The PS refuses to negociate: they says that Brussels does not benefit from the airport. This is not fake news: I can provide several quotes on tv from Brussels PM Vervoort (PS).

Mr Bellot (MR, federal government) can settle this through an Aviation Law. However, he is rather silent about his progress (if any). Is it because a settlement will end the move of traffic from BRU to LGG (Bellot lives near LGG)? Is it because Bellot is not capable?

And finally, and contrary to what you say, the NVA is not trying to win time. To win time is mr Michel's task (federal government, federal PM). All the NVA does, is to limit the short term damage for airlines and the airport, and to limit the long term damage to the economy.

[Acid-drop]

Like most people from Flanders do: we read the press from the north and the south. We listen to Bourgeois, we listen to Vanhengel, we listen to Vervoort and other PS ministers, we listen to the cdH and Ecolo boys/girl. And this results in a different view (= for most of us).

Are you serious ?
If our country is such a mess, it is very much because people ONLY listen to one side, getting a blinkered view of reality. There is a massive propaganda happening on both sides.
Even on this forum it feels like people are only reading 50pc of the lines.

You read both ? Good for you. But don't pretend its a fact for most.

Bellot is from Rocherfort btw.
And certainly the most competent minister of mobility in many years (just my feeling). Fingers crossed now.

Winning time is losing business.
Incertainty = fear
Those who wants good economy should work for a compromise.

[sn26567]

Mr Bellot (MR, federal government) can settle this through an Aviation Law. However, he is rather silent about his progress (if any). Is it because a settlement will end the move of traffic from BRU to LGG (Bellot lives near LGG)? Is it because Bellot is not capable?

Mr Bellot is an engineer by education. He got pragmatic solutions based essentially on sound science that he submitted to the "kern" cabinet. But his proposals were not accepted by some ministers (you may guess which ones).

And he is not from anywhere close to LGG. His closest airport is rather LUX...

[Passenger]

OK, I admit: the link Bellot-Liège was wrong. But what is not wrong, is that the Brussels government repeatly and publicly refuses to negociate, and that Bellot is doing close to zero for what he's supposed to do: make that Aviation Law. Why is Bellot refusing to do so? Maybe because he doens't want to be helt responsible for the lack of growth at LGG and CRL - growth realized by taking over traffic from BRU?

On 25th January 2017, the Flemish news site Doorbraak (no party-political organisation) wrote: "...De kans dat federaal minister van Mobiliteit Bellot (MR) echt met een tekst voor een vliegwet zal komen is ondertussen zo goed als onbestaande. Die vliegwet moet eens en voor altijd de routes vastleggen als een soort nationaal compromis. Dat staat in het regeerakkoord, maar Bellot lijkt niet geïnteresseerd. Op elke vraag die hem in het parlement over de vliegwet wordt gesteld, ook door N-VA-parlementsleden, antwoordt hij met een gelijkluidend nietszeggende standaardverklaring. Veel blabla, weinig boemboem. Als de N-VA graag een vliegwet wil, zal ze die zelf moeten schrijven..." Translated, in brief: the chances that Bellot will make a federal aviation law are closed to zero... All parties from the Michel-government agreed on when the government was y started, but Bellos seems not interested in it. Every parliamentary question about it is answered by the same reply without content... If the NVA wants an aviation law, they will have to write it themselves...

[sn26567]

As I wrote above, Bellot has drafted a text that he submitted to the "kern". But it is difficult, if not impossible, to reach a Belgian "compromis" on these matters...

[jan_olieslagers]

[[ off - topic ]]

You read both ? Good for you. But don't pretend its a fact for most.

I have to agree. I know only one person in Flanders who occasionally follows RTBF news - and then only because his partner does. Myself hear the RTBF "journal parlé" sometimes, and often find an interesting topic there not covered at all by VRT news. They seem to go more in depth, too. OTOH I have known more than one French-speaker priding her/himself on following Belgian media rather than French. Following news in the other national language seems an even more remote idea in the South, but nowhere is it common. Again, our Germanophile countrymen might well show the example.

[jan_olieslagers]

As I wrote above, Bellot has drafted a text that he submitted to the "kern". But it is difficult, if not impossible, to reach a Belgian "compromis" on these matters...

If that be sooth - and I do not doubt it! - those pushing for the federal govt to act might be right. Only, if they push too hard, they might come to regret it, according to common wisdom.

Surely the next call must be for a committee of experts to "discuss" the Bellot draft text? Then to offer conclusions to the feds?

[Yuqu12]

Feist said once in an interview on a TV-show (I thought RTBF?) that international experts should do this, as Belgocontrol cannot do this as they'll get blaimed for supporting a government. I think this is still the best solution: let some American or European experts come here, see how it all works and make the routes. Then the minister of transport has to copy these routes, send it to the parliament and case solved. Then those routes are objective and there is then no clash between the regional governments.

[Homo Aeroportus]

Feist said once in an interview on a TV-show (I thought RTBF?) that international experts should do this, ....

Well, I happen to know of a small shop in Montreal that does that.
The TCB, Technical Cooperation Bureau, has been providing specialized, and neutral, assistance to member states for +60 years.

See : http://www.icao.int/secretariat/Technic ... weare.aspx


Abstract :
As part of ICAO, a non-profit organization, TCB can offer its services under most favourable and cost-effective condition and guarantees strict neutrality, objectivity and transparency, as it does not represent any particular national or commercial interest, nor the interest of any donor in general. Its advice is therefore governed by objective technical and financial considerations.

Belgians part of the group of experts will happily step aside on this mission ...

H.A.

[Acid-drop]

That's an exellent idea for sure.

[BRU]

But it is not happenings, which again confirms this is a political problem. We are not looking for the best solution but for a political acceptable solution...

[SR20]

To bring grist to the mill !
Tomorrow on the french speaking radio "La Première" between 12:00 and 13:00 : https://www.rtbf.be/info/article/detail ... id=9588463

[Passenger]

To bring grist to the mill !
Tomorrow on the french speaking radio "La Première" between 12:00 and 13:00 : https://www.rtbf.be/info/article/detail ... id=9588463

I'm already looking forward to the answers to this surrealistic question: "...Faut-il délocaliser l’aéroport national en Wallonie? Voyez-vous Charleroi ou Liège acquérir une dimension nationale?..." Do we have to move the national airport to Wallonia? Do you think that CRL or LGG can obtain a national dimension?

(like we say in the north: zot zijn doet geen zeer)

[Desert Rat]

Like we say in the south...fou'l at cul e mougne des balouches...or....vas' e bauji cadet...

[Acid-drop]

Do you think that CRL or LGG can obtain a national dimension?

Strange narrow minded question no ?
It is international already but not national interesting concept.
Same as the harbours I guess

[Passenger]

Do you think that CRL or LGG can obtain a national dimension?
Strange narrow minded question no ?

Yes, totally agree, narrow minded question indeed. But I didn't invent that. I have only translated what RTBF asked their listeners: "Voyez-vous Charleroi ou Liège acquérir une dimension nationale?..."

[Yuqu12]

National airport there is never going to work, with the heart of Europe in Brussels, an airport is needed close to this centre. Imagine that a head of state has to travel from Liège to Brussels with a car (not to mension the security of this head of state)

[Acid-drop]

No need to make plans for the future, the present is already clear... 7.3 millions pax in CRL, from a potatoe field not so long ago.

[Passenger]

RTBf, "Débats Premiére": audio is 23 minutes 52 seconds:
https://www.rtbf.be/auvio/detail_debats ... id=2207319

It was een debat onder gelijkgezinden with three guests: Arnauld Feist (Brussels Airport), Luc Partoune (LGG Airport) and André Clodong, aviation consultant.

edited: correct name for André Clodong
https://be.linkedin.com/in/andr%C3%A9-clodong-a6290b90