17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

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Passenger
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Passenger »

flightlover wrote:Sorry, but there is a difference between making a profit and making a profit on workers backs. It is all about how the workers are treated. There is nothing wrong with making a profit while providing decent materials and workable conditions.
With all respect: it's not "making profit on workers backs". We have enough social law and social inspection to prohibit that workers are abused.

What causes the lack of investment in new staff and new materials, is the lack of respect, by today's staff, towards the clients = the airlines and the passengers. And frankly, why would your management/ownership invest when there is a huge risk that the company will loose another good client because of your strikes? Actually, there is only one reason why most BRU-airlines remain client with their handling agent: it's because the other goes on strike as often.

Why do you think that Jet Airways has switched BRU for AMS? Because they have better conditions there? A better market? Better connections? Forget it. Brussels/Belgium was better for them. It's because they had enough of the Belgian trade unions. The Dutch unions don't strike. They talk. The only strike Jet Airways encountered so far at AMS, was a strike by FNV Beveiliging because of the new working conditions for security at the new AMS Central Checkpoints. FNV went on strike 4 strikes, and the longest strike lasted a full... 20 minutes. Imagine Jet Airways would still be at BRU: how many flights had they to cancel because of strikes (ATC or police or handling agent)?

You want new materials and new staff? Then respect your clients and don't strike anymore.

flightlover
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by flightlover »

Passenger wrote:
flightlover wrote:Sorry, but there is a difference between making a profit and making a profit on workers backs. It is all about how the workers are treated. There is nothing wrong with making a profit while providing decent materials and workable conditions.
With all respect: it's not "making profit on workers backs". We have enough social law and social inspection to prohibit that workers are abused.

What causes the lack of investment in new staff and new materials, is the lack of respect, by today's staff, towards the clients = the airlines and the passengers. And frankly, why would your management/ownership invest when there is a huge risk that the company will loose another good client because of your strikes? Actually, there is only one reason why most BRU-airlines remain client with their handling agent: it's because the other goes on strike as often.

Why do you think that Jet Airways has switched BRU for AMS? Because they have better conditions there? A better market? Better connections? Forget it. Brussels/Belgium was better for them. It's because they had enough of the Belgian trade unions. The Dutch unions don't strike. They talk. The only strike Jet Airways encountered so far at AMS, was a strike by FNV Beveiliging because of the new working conditions for security at the new AMS Central Checkpoints. FNV went on strike 4 strikes, and the longest strike lasted a full... 20 minutes. Imagine Jet Airways would still be at BRU: how many flights had they to cancel because of strikes (ATC or police or handling agent)?

You want new materials and new staff? Then respect your clients and don't strike anymore.


Sorry to burst you bubble, but the time the majority of customers are paying more for good service is long gone. Somehow they got convinced a 4-star meal has no production costs. But when quality suffers, they blame the chef.

Reality on tarmac is that when a plane arrives at a stand there is sometimes no ground crew available to place shocks, connect ground power, or let alone unload bags and cargo. Not because they are unwilling to give a good service but because they are still buzzy handling another plane. In other instances there is no one available to pick up the incoming baggage. Or materials brake down due to lack of maintenance.

The workers are not always to blame for not being able to help customers as well as they would like.And if they, after a long period, decide to settle at that lower standard. It is just the result of being fed up with how things go.

But hey, in the end, tickets should be as cheap as possible...

Inquirer
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Inquirer »

I notice there's a lot of talk about "the money made on the back of staff", but just a small question: does Swissport even make any money in BRU? I don't know, but I seem to remember having read their competitor Avia Partners was loss making at BRU (or was it Swissport itself???).

Given the very fierce competition in BRU, it's not difficult to imagine that indeed Swissport/Avia Partners have had to accept service contract terms which are unprofitable for them.

Low cost also includes trying to shift some cost to others, and then the handlers may be at the receiving end: being a privately owned and profit oriented company, operating in a very high labour cost environment like Belgium may not be the best situation then to absorb such a shift, especially not when it comes fast and big like it did at BRU, both by the massive influx of traditional low cost companies as well as by the unexpectedly fast way in which local airlines successfully adapted to the new competition.

Poiu
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Poiu »

Spot on Inquirer, Aviapartner and Swissport are in a fierce competition, which pushes both of them in the red. This leads to childish behavior. Refusing to handle an aircraft because equiment of the competitor is parked 10 cm outside of the red line on the next stand springs to mind.
Member Flightlover is quite correct that there is a lot of pennywise pound foolish acting going on. eg: loaders are running to load an aircraft in 7 minutes instead of 10, next thing they are expected to do it always in 7.
At first glance the airlines are the winners as they pay less handling costs, but ultimately it results in a lower service level offered to the passengers.
Motivation amongst the staff is suffering. You often see gate agents strolling to the gate and checking their mobile phones whilst crew and aircraft are clearly ready for boarding, resulting in late departure.
In the long run the airlines are shooting themselves in the footh though as passengers start to avoid them.

Passenger
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Passenger »

Inquirer wrote:I notice there's a lot of talk about "the money made on the back of staff", but just a small question: does Swissport even make any money in BRU? I don't know, but I seem to remember having read their competitor Avia Partners was loss making at BRU (or was it Swissport itself???).
No. They both make a terrible loss at Brussels Airport.

2014 : Swissport Belgium nv/sa (1930 Zaventem): -6.343.760 € nett loss

2014 : Aviapartner Belgium nv/sa (1930 Zaventem): -9.106.576 € nett loss

Just these two figures should be enough for the unions not go on strike.

(both groups have a few other companies in Belgium)

flightlover
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by flightlover »

Passenger wrote:
Inquirer wrote:I notice there's a lot of talk about "the money made on the back of staff", but just a small question: does Swissport even make any money in BRU? I don't know, but I seem to remember having read their competitor Avia Partners was loss making at BRU (or was it Swissport itself???).
No. They both make a terrible loss at Brussels Airport.

2014 : Swissport Belgium nv/sa (1930 Zaventem): -6.343.760 € nett loss

2014 : Aviapartner Belgium nv/sa (1930 Zaventem): -9.106.576 € nett loss

Just these two figures should be enough for the unions not go on strike.

(both groups have a few other companies in Belgium)
So why are they not making money on the backs of the workers then? When they can stem the loss by making workers do more for the same pay, they are just doing that. There is not more money coming in, but less going out. It is not because there is a minus in front off the number that there is no money made.

And just how would you want to convince a board of directors to increase spending when they are loss making??
Or do you mean we should just shut up and swallow every cost cutting measure they lay down on us?
The bucket is filled to the brim. If not overflowing already.

b720
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by b720 »

If they are losing such sums, they should shut operations in BRU, and those ungrateful employees can go and strike in front of unemployment offices.

flightlover
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by flightlover »

b720 wrote:If they are losing such sums, they should shut operations in BRU, and those ungrateful employees can go and strike in front of unemployment offices.
Or pax could be paying 1€ more just for ground handling and then those companies will be able to be profitable.

Passenger
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Passenger »

flightlover wrote: So why are they not making money on the backs of the workers then? When they can stem the loss by making workers do more for the same pay, they are just doing that. There is not more money coming in, but less going out. It is not because there is a minus in front off the number that there is no money made.

And just how would you want to convince a board of directors to increase spending when they are loss making?? Or do you mean we should just shut up and swallow every cost cutting measure they lay down on us? The bucket is filled to the brim. If not overflowing already.
I'm no accountant, but I can read and I can do some very basis maths. More money is coming in indeed (2013 -> 2014 was +11%), but even more money is going out, mainly to staff costs (2013 -> 2014 was +15%). That's the sad story the annual account 2014 shows. Let's hope the 2015 account, to be published soon, will show an improvement.

It's been said here a few times already: the fierce competition between Swissport and Aviapartner doesn't allow any of them to charge airlines what they should charge.

Don't believe what your union delegates tell you = that they make money on your back and that there is money made indeed. There isn't. May I suggest something? Go to someone from your accounts department, and ask him/her to explain to you in a few words what all those figures in the annual account mean. And maybe you will then understand how dangerous a strike is for your company: the bucket from the owners is also filled to the brim. And if their bucket overflows, you can go on strike before the doors of the unemployment office indeed.

b720
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by b720 »

Pax paying 1 eur?? Is this a joke? I think that pax pay enough fees. Then what? Another 1 eur because Quick is not selling enough burgers? Then 50 cents to keep Starbucks at the airport!!! Business makes losses = SHUT DOWN! Let others operate and make money. Maybe it is time political parties review the cost of employment in this country. Labor is very very highly taxed, while unemployment is rewarded. It has to be the other way around.

Poiu
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Poiu »

b720 wrote:If they are losing such sums, they should shut operations in BRU, and those ungrateful employees can go and strike in front of unemployment offices.

Handling companies have been sqeezed by airlines. Somebody will need to pay the bill. If they airlines refuses to pay the handler may shut down, but is the airline able to pay without jeopardising its own future?

b720
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by b720 »

handling agents squeezed, they need to cut costs. There is no other way, or shut down. Cutting costs will ultimately affect employees. They will need to work longer for same pay, or they will have to be replaced with cheaper contracts. One can not strike and demand more from an employer running on losses.

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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by jan_olieslagers »

If only two companies are offering such services, and both are making a loss, I cannot help wondering how these companies are managed. I should think no board of shareholders will accept a management that negotiates unprofitable contracts..?

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Conti764
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Conti764 »

b720 wrote:Pax paying 1 eur?? Is this a joke? I think that pax pay enough fees. Then what? Another 1 eur because Quick is not selling enough burgers? Then 50 cents to keep Starbucks at the airport!!! Business makes losses = SHUT DOWN! Let others operate and make money. Maybe it is time political parties review the cost of employment in this country. Labor is very very highly taxed, while unemployment is rewarded. It has to be the other way around.
These losses are tremendously high... I cannot see how another company might turn it around...?

Maybe a stupid question, but with the millions of profit tBAC is posting on a yearly basis, can't they install a ground handling of their own? If this department is loss making, it would be offset by the general profit BRU is posting.

Inquirer
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Inquirer »

Poiu wrote:Spot on Inquirer, Aviapartner and Swissport are in a fierce competition, which pushes both of them in the red.
Thanks for the confirmation of what I already feared.
Poiu wrote:At first glance the airlines are the winners as they pay less handling costs, but ultimately it results in a lower service level offered to the passengers.
Indeed, and it's clear the short term profits are no longer outweighing the long term costs.
Poiu wrote:Handling companies have been sqeezed by airlines. Somebody will need to pay the bill.
And at present, that bill is passed on to the ground staff, if one starts to look carefully.
flightlover wrote:Do you mean we should just shut up and swallow every cost cutting measure they lay down on us? The bucket is filled to the brim. If not overflowing already.
A couple of weeks ago, there was an interview with the President of BAC, Mr. Mark De Scheemaeker in the wake of the then Aviapartners strike in which is basically said the same and showed understanding for the reasons of that strike, while you can hardly accuse the man of being left leaning or having much union sympathy, can you?
b720 wrote:If handling agents squeezed, they need to cut costs. There is no other way, or shut down. Cutting costs will ultimately affect employees. They will need to work longer for same pay, or they will have to be replaced with cheaper contracts.
The problem here may be that it's just not possible to operate profitably at the prices agreed to.
One shouldn't forget this kind of work is very labour intensive and labour costs are extremely high in Belgium, so even if the fees agreed to still look reasonable when compared to what is paid elsewhere, they may in fact be too low to cover the full costs of it all.
I wonder what cost cutting you think of in a sub-process in which you need to unload say 100 bags from a plane? It's basically all labour cost?
jan_olieslagers wrote:If only two companies are offering such services, and both are making a loss, I cannot help wondering how these companies are managed. I should think no board of shareholders will accept a management that negotiates unprofitable contracts..?

I think it tells you more about the cost of labour costs than it does about the way in which both companies are run. Without knowing all the ins and outs of either one, but it's not very likely to assume BOTH would be as badly run and completely unable to be turned around in BRU, especially not since they have worldwide experience in house on how to do it.
Can they be better managed? Most probably yes, there's always room for improvements and their communication skills towards their staff are demonstratively very poor, to start with.
Yet will it make the whole difference? Most likely not, and that's the main issue.
jan_olieslagers wrote:I should think no board of shareholders will accept a management that negotiates unprofitable contracts..?
The question is how much negotiating is really going on?
Or are they rather being dictated prices by their customers, based on international benchmarking and risks to swap if they don't match the demands? I can see how a management is pushed to signing up to unprofitable contracts in order to safeguard production volume, rather than risk losing a customer, in the hope that by doing so they will buy time and hurt the competitor more than themselves.


And then the all important question is: what to do about it?

Well, remember it's BAC which basically kick started -or at least aggravated- the problem by inviting Vueling in, to which ryanair reacted in panic by announcing they were going to come to BRU too (more and sooner), after which Brussels Airlines (and others), didn't remain idle either.
Market dynamics thus played their full role faster than both BAC or anybody could have dreamt it, which was truely fantastic news for BAC as they saw their passenger numbers explode over 2014 and 2015 as well as their profits too, but not everybody at the airport may have benefitted to the same extend from this commercial boom, if they did at all.

As such, it may be appropriate for BAC to re-consider their commercial strategy in order to decide if indeed they should be as happy with every additional passenger than they were at first.
From the latest comments through their CEO Mr. A. Feist, it sounds as if they have now understood that especially regional low cost passengers aren't such a wealth to have for them after all, in the long run. Understandable new insight indeed, given the financial stress the airlines bringing those in have brought to the vital subcontractors working on the airport and their repeat breakdowns which have devastated the reputation and reliability of the whole airport, also amongst other categories of passengers!
The idea of BAC to fill their unused capacity with additional and mainly low cost passengers was a good one on paper, but the side effects of it -i.e. the total destruction of the airport's reputation and reliability- is unwanted and massive long term collateral damage which may outweigh any short term benefits.

Short term, BAC should consider mechanisms to let those who do not directly benefit from the much increased volumes and much stronger competition (like for instance the handlers), have their part of the newly generated profits too, so they do not go under.
An airport without ground handling companies is not an airport, so the 2 should at the very least be cross feeding each other to some extend.
It's a bit unreal to have one company (BAC) pocketing millions of money thanks to new passengers flowing through their premises, whereas another company (actually you could see them as a department of the airport, which they are too at some airports) living in the same economic habitat is suffering from that, especially since both companies need each other for their long term economic survival.
The idea has been mentioned to increase the airport fees by half a euro or a euro for the handlers: I think such isn't needed. What may be appropriate however is for BAC to come up with a financial mechanism to deviate a similar amount of the currents airports fees to its handling companies in order to help them to be profitable and thus survive and to increase its service and reliability again.

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sn26567
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by sn26567 »

Inquirer wrote:It's a bit unreal to have one company (BAC) pocketing millions of money thanks to new passengers flowing through their premises, whereas another company (actually you could see them as a department of the airport, which they are too at some airports) living in the same economic habitat is suffering from that, especially since both companies need each other for their long term economic survival.
After the 22/03 attacks, the profits of BAC might have plummeted. The net profit in 2015 was 70 M€, and the cost of the attacks 75-100 M€, before intervention of insurance (the amount of which is not yet known). Furthermore, BAC has launched an investment programme of €1bn over 10 years.

Therefore, I doubt that BAC will leave a lot of room for negotiations. And if I am right, the contracts of the handlers are with the airlines, not with the airport.
André
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Passenger
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Re: 17/06/2016 Swissport industrial action (baggage - cleaning)

Post by Passenger »

Conti764 wrote:These losses are tremendously high... I cannot see how another company might turn it around...?
With the nice turnover they make, even only at Brussels Airport, it should be possible for both handlers to recover their losses:
Aviaparter 73.000.000 € (2014)
Swissport 86.000.000 € (2014)

Unfortunately, all work and efforts by management, ownership and staff are destroyed by new strikes. Service means 24/7/365. Not one hour, not one day less.

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