Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

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OO-ITR
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by OO-ITR »

sean1982 wrote:
OO-ITR wrote:
Passenger wrote: If that's correct, it's the opposite of what the doomsayers have repeated here three times a day. There will be no integration of Brussels Airlines into EuroWings, the Africa-flights will not move from Brussels to Germany, and the company "nv/sa Brussels Airlines" will (probably) remain to exist. Only nv/sa SN Airlholding will (probably) be integrated into Lufthansa.
Indeed why don't people have the patience to wait till tomorrow before spreading different Apocalypse Now scenario's...
I waited .... same result
lol well one could not expect another answer from you.
But where exactly did you hear an apocalypse now scenario in the press conference???
About moving the BRU hub to FRA/MUC? About changing the complete fleet to Eurowings?
I have listened carefully to Mr. Spohr and the rest but fail to have heard something like that.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Yuqu12 »

Boavida wrote:It watched the press conference and LH seems to have a very unclear/double message. On the one hand, they issue a press release saying they intend to bring it all under the 'Eurowings' brand eventually... but on the other hand the LH CEO told that they'll always keep a 'Belgian touch' in the name. He said "this is not a brand takeover". And "if we change the name, it will always be in agreement with the Belgian management". :roll:

ps: we have a lousy, uninformed/uninterested press. What a bunch of stupid questions...
So they say: "a name change will be in agreement with the Belgian management". So if the management accepts Eurowings as name, it will be Eurowings...

OO-ITR
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by OO-ITR »

Too bad nothing was said about the long haul fleet renewal

Passenger
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Passenger »

Boavida wrote:ps: we have a lousy, uninformed/uninterested press. What a bunch of stupid questions...
So what did you expect? That all journalists would pose their questions during the public session? Of course they don't. They keep their good questions for the personal interviews, ongoing at this very moment. And then, the answer is for them only.

Boavida
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Boavida »

You can watch the press conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPbHerqV9Ac

I'll quote Carsten Spohr's last words literally: "I cannot envision a Brussels Airlines without a brand including a Belgian touch. We will not touch the brand unless we have an agreement with with the Belgian management in Brussels Airlines to develop it further. And those ideas, we'll look at in the first year (....) we'll work on that... but there won't be a brand takeover, I promise that"

Hmm... what to think?

OO-ITR
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Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 18:29

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by OO-ITR »

Boavida wrote:You can watch the press conference here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPbHerqV9Ac

I'll quote Carsten Spohr's last words literally: "I cannot envision a Brussels Airlines without a brand including a Belgian touch. We will not touch the brand unless we have an agreement with with the Belgian management in Brussels Airlines to develop it further. And those ideas, we'll look at in the first year (....) we'll work on that... but there won't be a brand takeover, I promise that"

Hmm... what to think?
Indeed that really sounds like Apocalypse Now :lol: :lol: :lol:

Inquirer
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Inquirer »

It was a press conference about a corporate take-over, so those enthousiasts hoping to hear news about planes, destinations, etc will indeed not have learnt much, but otherwise the purpose was well served, I should say?

Okay, those who have been predicting Brussels Airlines would be renamed and (the intercontinental) routes moved over to Germany will not understand what is going on, because it indeed doesn't sound anyway like that, at present, to me.

The interesting things I noticed:

1- Sitting next to eachother, it's made clear it's an amical take-over
2- Lufthansa forgoes the outstanding loan and converts it into an investment (?)
3- The name is not going to become Eurowings: Belgians want a distinctively local touch and Lufthansa is respecting that, just like at Swiss and Austrian (dixit Spohr), for as long as the local Belgian management feels it's somehow useful.
4- While commercially remaining distinct, Brussels Airlines' operations will as much as possible be integrated into those of Eurowings to make full benefit of a bigger platform.
5- Davignon mentioned it's better to be 30% of Eurowings, than it is to be just 5% of Lufthansa: expect Eurowings to become partly Brussels Airlines too, according to Spohr.
6- the Eurowings CEO mentions he's not going to start any base or commercial initiative in BRU: Lufthansa now has Brussels Airlines to cover that market.
7- the €600M is the price of the change of planes for intercontinental routes, which will be signed next year to replace the current ones, the cost of which will have to be sponsored by Lufthansa.
8- the hybrid model is the future: purely low cost carriers as well as purely legacy carriers are going to have to adapt to that and so having to work together their 2 brands currently covering that market is very similar ways will create a win-win for everybody, not just the two brands. (again, dixit Spohr)

The practical day-to-day implications about all of this will become clear over the next months and years of course, so that will be most interesting to keep watching for sure: I'd say that based on these foundations however, BRU has succeeded in keeping it's home airline serving both Europe and the rest of the world, with a special focus on Africa, as 'we should not let others connect us, we should connect ourselves to Europe and the world' (can't remember who it was who said that, but it sure sounded good).
Having a home based airline which is part of the biggest aviation group in Europe, that's a big step forward for the airport in fact, when it comes to long term commercial stability and thus infrastructural planning.

Now, let's see if they can indeed also succeed in getting Eurowings to move (part of) their intercontinental routes which suffer from a lack of quality feed over from Köln to Brussels, like I have always regarded as a good idea, and which you can read is a possibility in between the lines. :)

Boavida
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Boavida »

It is very clear that LH doesn't value the brand 'Brussels Airlines'. Otherwise they would say "it's a strong brand and we will not change the brand in the future". Full stop. But they don't say this. They talk about "a brand" including a "Belgian touch" and to "develop it further".

So when we read between the lines:

- the Brussels Airlines brand is going eventually
- they want to keep a link to Belgium in the name
- they want to develop it further - in agreement with Belgian management
- they have an idea to work on

Do you see what I see? There's only one name that fits all the criteria...

Image

;)

AirOpinion
Posts: 119
Joined: 11 Feb 2013, 18:38

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by AirOpinion »

I would like to share this view. In my opinion this looks more like a friendly take over, rather than a hostile takeover. Furthermore I see oppurtunities rather than restictions for the current Brussels Airlines. Synergy is not always a bad thing, it can also lead to interesting benefits.
Inquirer wrote:It was a press conference about a corporate take-over, so those enthousiasts hoping to hear news about planes, destinations, etc will indeed not have learnt much, but otherwise the purpose was well served, I should say?

Okay, those who have been predicting Brussels Airlines would be renamed and (the intercontinental) routes moved over to Germany will not understand what is going on, because it indeed doesn't sound anyway like that, at present, to me.

The interesting things I noticed:

1- Sitting next to eachother, it's made clear it's an amical take-over
2- Lufthansa forgoes the outstanding loan and converts it into an investment (?)
3- The name is not going to become Eurowings: Belgians want a distinctively local touch and Lufthansa is respecting that, just like at Swiss and Austrian (dixit Spohr), for as long as the local Belgian management feels it's somehow useful.
4- While commercially remaining distinct, Brussels Airlines' operations will as much as possible be integrated into those of Eurowings to make full benefit of a bigger platform.
5- Davignon mentioned it's better to be 30% of Eurowings, than it is to be just 5% of Lufthansa: expect Eurowings to become partly Brussels Airlines too, according to Spohr.
6- the Eurowings CEO mentions he's not going to start any base or commercial initiative in BRU: Lufthansa now has Brussels Airlines to cover that market.
7- the €600M is the price of the change of planes for intercontinental routes, which will be signed next year to replace the current ones, the cost of which will have to be sponsored by Lufthansa.
8- the hybrid model is the future: purely low cost carriers as well as purely legacy carriers are going to have to adapt to that and so having to work together their 2 brands currently covering that market is very similar ways will create a win-win for everybody, not just the two brands. (again, dixit Spohr)

The practical day-to-day implications about all of this will become clear over the next months and years of course, so that will be most interesting to keep watching for sure: I'd say that based on these foundations however, BRU has succeeded in keeping it's home airline serving both Europe and the rest of the world, with a special focus on Africa, as 'we should not let others connect us, we should connect ourselves to Europe and the world' (can't remember who it was who said that, but it sure sounded good).
Having a home based airline which is part of the biggest aviation group in Europe, that's a big step forward for the airport in fact, when it comes to long term commercial stability and thus infrastructural planning.

Now, let's see if they can indeed also succeed in getting Eurowings to move (part of) their intercontinental routes which suffer from a lack of quality feed over from Köln to Brussels, like I have always regarded as a good idea, and which you can read is a possibility in between the lines. :)

b720
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Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by b720 »

It seems to me that SN will eventually be fully integrated into EUROWINGS.

OO-ITR
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Joined: 13 Aug 2011, 18:29

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by OO-ITR »

b720 wrote:It seems to me that SN will eventually be fully integrated into EUROWINGS.
no SN will operate under the Eurowings umbrella, that is what is written in the press release....

The brand ‘Brussels Airlines’ will be complemented by the claim “Member of the Eurowings Group”. The common goal of Lufthansa and Brussels Airlines is to further strengthen the market position in the Belgian Airline market.

Thomaaas
Posts: 44
Joined: 11 Nov 2013, 01:42

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Thomaaas »

Boavida wrote:It is very clear that LH doesn't value the brand 'Brussels Airlines'. Otherwise they would say "it's a strong brand and we will not change the brand in the future". Full stop. But they don't say this. They talk about "a brand" including a "Belgian touch" and to "develop it further".

So when we read between the lines:

- the Brussels Airlines brand is going eventually
- they want to keep a link to Belgium in the name
- they want to develop it further - in agreement with Belgian management
- they have an idea to work on

Do you see what I see? There's only one name that fits all the criteria...

Image

;)
For crying out loud, let it go. Sabena will not happen. It might bring back some good memories to av geeks, but for most people it brings back memories of bankrupcy, job loss, the Swiss screwing the Belgians over. I'm 99% sure Sabena will not hapen (although I could be wrong, hence the 99%).

louise1307
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by louise1307 »

And what about the pilots having CDD with SN? Any hope of future for them?

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Conti764
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Conti764 »

So SN will operate under the Eurowings umbrella. Due to cost savings I assume. So, in the future, might we also expect LX and OS under that umbrella? Maybe SN is a test case for the rest of the LH Group, except LH itself maybe...

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Yuqu12
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Yuqu12 »

Is this an option? All SN-flights become EW-flights carried out by SN? Sometimes you see ar BRU EW-flights carried out by Germanwings.

OO-ITR
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by OO-ITR »

Conti764 wrote:So SN will operate under the Eurowings umbrella. Due to cost savings I assume. So, in the future, might we also expect LX and OS under that umbrella? Maybe SN is a test case for the rest of the LH Group, except LH itself maybe...
OS already started flying under Eurowings with an OS crew

b720
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Joined: 04 May 2006, 00:00

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by b720 »

Swiss is the goose that lays the golden egg. I don't see them under the umbrella of Eurowings, except maybe for their GVA operations?

sean1982
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by sean1982 »

OO-ITR wrote:
sean1982 wrote:
OO-ITR wrote:
Indeed why don't people have the patience to wait till tomorrow before spreading different Apocalypse Now scenario's...
I waited .... same result
lol well one could not expect another answer from you.
But where exactly did you hear an apocalypse now scenario in the press conference???
About moving the BRU hub to FRA/MUC? About changing the complete fleet to Eurowings?
I have listened carefully to Mr. Spohr and the rest but fail to have heard something like that.

I have never said that BRU hub would move to FRA/MUC. What I have said is that a full integration into eurowings is unstoppable. Slowly, bit by bit, back office jobs in BRU will be removed. Why have 2 flightplanning departments when you can do it with 1. Why have two ops control centers when you can do it with one ... etc, etc. Even if the name doesnt change (which I very much doubt otherwise there would have been hard garantuees. I dont fall for the promotional "we'll keep the belgian touch" talk from LH. If in 2 years you give a free piece of chocolate they can say: we kept the touch") it would be eurowings in all but a name. The so called 600m€ investment is also "een scheet in een fles". The lease of the A330's is up and the aircraft are at the end of their life. It was invest or lose half of what has kept SN alive for so long: the african network. Apocalypse now? No .... good news? Far from

brabel
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Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by brabel »

In some articles we can read that LH plans to make BRU the hub for sub-Sahara Africa.
Does this open new opportunities for SN? e.g. taking back Nairobi, going to South-Africa, opening Lagos and Libreville, ...?
Or am I speculating too much...

Thomaaas
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Joined: 11 Nov 2013, 01:42

Re: Lufthansa buys the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines

Post by Thomaaas »

brabel wrote:In some articles we can read that LH plans to make BRU the hub for sub-Sahara Africa.
Does this open new opportunities for SN? e.g. taking back Nairobi, going to South-Africa, opening Lagos and Libreville, ...?
Or am I speculating too much...
That's how I interpreted the sub-sahara hub thing as well. Kenya, Tanzania, Nigeria and South Africa should be introduced in the long-term if they really want to make BRU the sub-sahara hub.

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