VLM Airlines news 2014-2015

[koninckske]

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... rmany-base

http://www.austrianaviation.net/news-re ... be-an.html

Friedrichshafen to Hamburg, Berlin Tegel and Dusseldorf with 3 Fokker 50s from 15 February 2016. Hopefully they get a good incentive from the airport. Big gamble to start with 3 airplanes.

And since ANR to GVA is only available at high fares from 15 February 2016 my guess is that this route will end... We will know soon when they make an anouncement.

[sn26567]

I hope for them that they have made a thorough market study to avoid a catastrophic issue like their flights from Liège.

[Avnu]

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... rmany-base

http://www.austrianaviation.net/news-re ... be-an.html

Friedrichshafen to Hamburg, Berlin Tegel and Dusseldorf met 3 Fokker 50s from 15 February 2016. Hopefully they get a good incentive from the airport. Big gamble to start with 3 airplanes.

The CH-Aviation article is only available with an expensive subscription. Unless someone here has access, we don't really know what it says. As for the Austrian Aviation article, they themselves admit there's a lot of speculation involved. So it remains to be seen what's actually announced by VLM before we can judge how big a gamble they're taking. If you know where to look, a new FDH-HAM route is more or less confirmed, whether they'll serve DUS and TXL as well remains to be seen really.

And since ANR to GVA is only available at high fares from 15 February 2016 my guess is that this route will end... We will know soon when they make an anouncement.

That's not quite true: ANR to GVA O/W is available on February 28th f.i. for the same low 46€ as we've seen before.

[PttU]

Die Flotte des Carriers besteht aus insgesamt 12 Fokker-50, die ein Durchschnittsalter von 26,1 Jahren aufweisen. Drei Maschinen befinden sich weiterhin im ACMI-Einsatz im Auftrag der ehemaligen Muttergesellschaft.

Does VLM really have 15 Fokker 50's? Or even if they meant 12 aircraft of which 3 are used for CityJet-flights, the numbers don't match... I only count about 10 Fokkers of VLM, and only 2 used for CityJet flights :/
OO-VLF
OO-VLI
OO-VLJ
OO-VLL (CityJet Livery)
OO-VLM
OO-VLN (CityJet Livery)
OO-VLO?? Long time not seen...
OO-VLP? VizionAir Livery
OO-VLQ
OO-VLS
OO-VLZ

[Avnu]

Dusseldorf airport is already showing the Friedrichshafen flights on their website: https://www.dus.com/en/flights/flight-d ... ht=1357428

[Konus]

Die Flotte des Carriers besteht aus insgesamt 12 Fokker-50, die ein Durchschnittsalter von 26,1 Jahren aufweisen. Drei Maschinen befinden sich weiterhin im ACMI-Einsatz im Auftrag der ehemaligen Muttergesellschaft.

Does VLM really have 15 Fokker 50's? Or even if they meant 12 aircraft of which 3 are used for CityJet-flights, the numbers don't match... I only count about 10 Fokkers of VLM, and only 2 used for CityJet flights :/
OO-VLF
OO-VLI
OO-VLJ
OO-VLL (CityJet Livery)
OO-VLM
OO-VLN (CityJet Livery)
OO-VLO?? Long time not seen...
OO-VLP? VizionAir Livery
OO-VLQ
OO-VLS
OO-VLZ

OO-VLO last flight 23/10/2015 - aircraft in full white cs stored next to hangar VLM at ANR
OO-VLP last flight 29/11/2015 - aircraft also stored somewhere ?

[AAI]

you will see a new connection ANR FDH instead of positioning flights
as they did to BHX 3 x week

[LJ]

I hope for them that they have made a thorough market study to avoid a catastrophic issue like their flights from Liège.

Or better, I hope that they ask themselves, why can we [VLM] make FDH work whilst it was the nail in the coffin for InterSky? InterSky couldn't operate FDH - DUS profitable and HAM and TXL weren't real cash cows either. Anyway good for FDH. After InterSky went bankrupt only the scheduled flights to FRA and IST remained and itg's becoming very quiet at the airport.

[Flanker2]

I hope for them that they have made a thorough market study to avoid a catastrophic issue like their flights from Liège.

Sorry for VLM managers but I'm going to go one step further.
Imo, you are amateurs.

Of all the airports there are across Europe? Friedrichshafen? Really?
Even if they get subsidies, it doesn't make any sense.

The Fokker 50 might be cheap to operate, but if you can't fill them or only occasionally, you're not going to make any money.

I actually envy VLM for the huge opportunities that they ave at their hands.
Cheap airplanes, cheap fuel and investment capital. I could think of a dozen opportunities for them to operate very successfully... which is why this is a real shame.

[Avnu]

Or better, I hope that they ask themselves, why can we [VLM] make FDH work whilst it was the nail in the coffin for InterSky? InterSky couldn't operate FDH - DUS profitable and HAM and TXL weren't real cash cows either. Anyway good for FDH. After InterSky went bankrupt only the scheduled flights to FRA and IST remained and itg's becoming very quiet at the airport.

If the rumours turn out to be (mostly) true, it all sounds like a huge gamble to me. Do they really feel they can make something work that a more established carrier couldn't? And do so a good three months after that carrier went bankrupt? The (economic) circumstances can't have changed much in the meantime. At the same time, VLM has far less brand recognition in Germany and - let's face it - a website/booking engine that doesn't do them any favours.

I'm assuming InterSky was using the ATR's out of FDH which were maybe a bit too big at 70 seats but I'm not sure that automatically translates into a big advantage for VLM. The slower Fokker 50 makes the flight times between DUS and FDH jump by 20 minutes to 1h20.

But most of all: will they really 'spend' three planes on this route? Will the one flying between DUS and FDH really arrive back in Friedrichshafen at 9:55am only to sit idle until the evening flight at 6:15pm? I can't see how they could afford to underuse their fleet to such a degree but I can't see how they would optimise it either. After all, FDH isn't a true hub for them, they can only make these flights work economically if they offer (early) morning and evening flights and from what I can tell they have hardly any charter business in Germany or Switzerland that can fill the gaps.

It almost feels like VLM can't resist drawing some extra lines on its route map but lacks a real strategy as to why those lines are there and what they'll bring to the company.

[Flanker2]

It's very rare to see luchtzak.be come to this level of consensus.
What the f**¨% is wrong with VLM top management?

[koninckske]

Entering the Friedrichshafen market sounds like an ok idea. No competition from other airlines and a proven market (not a big market). Just putting in 3 airplanes is too big to start an operation.

If I was VLM management I would start with just one F50 and fly 2 daily to Hamburg and daily to Berlin. Why Hamburg? Because VLM is already present there, so not a new market... And possible connections to ANR and RTM (yes I know it is a long way to go from FDH to HAM and then south again). Why Berlin? Just because the route to Dusseldorf wasn't performing well for Intersky.

Then after two months of operations there they can put in a second F50. Increase Berlin to two daily, add a afternoon connection to Vienna and some other destination. Two F50s flying 3 rotations daily can work, 3 F50s flying 2 rotation is simply a terrible idea.

I hope when the official press statement is released it doesn't say 3 F50s. This would almost double the VLM branded scheduled flights: too much too quickly and all in one place that doesn't know VLM...

Good luck VLM and yes maybe change the management, but they can't because the management owns the company...

[Passenger]

It's very rare to see luchtzak.be come to this level of consensus.
What the f**¨% is wrong with VLM top management?

I wouldn't call 3 or 4 posts a "consensus" - specially not when there are also others who do not condemn it like you do. But then, and contrary to you, I have never flown to / been in Friedfrichshafen, so I don't know if there is or isn't a market.

I agree with André though: I hope they had other advisors then those who advised them to start operations at LGG.

[PttU]

Entering the Friedrichshafen market sounds like an ok idea. No competition from other airlines and a proven market (not a big market). Just putting in 3 airplanes is too big to start an operation.

If I was VLM management I would start with just one F50 and fly 2 daily to Hamburg and daily to Berlin. Why Hamburg? Because VLM is already present there, so not a new market... And possible connections to ANR and RTM (yes I know it is a long way to go from FDH to HAM and then south again). Why Berlin? Just because the route to Dusseldorf wasn't performing well for Intersky.

Then after two months of operations there they can put in a second F50. Increase Berlin to two daily, add a afternoon connection to Vienna and some other destination. Two F50s flying 3 rotations daily can work, 3 F50s flying 2 rotation is simply a terrible idea.

I hope when the official press statement is released it doesn't say 3 F50s. This would almost double the VLM branded scheduled flights: too much too quickly and all in one place that doesn't know VLM...

Good luck VLM and yes maybe change the management, but they can't because the management owns the company...

Maybe VLM has enough airplanes and can station 3 F50 @ FDH? It gives them the opportunity to build a schedule to HAM, TXL and Dusseldorf like they fly from Antwerp to HAM and GVA: morning and evening returns, which are interesting for business travellers. If they only have one aircraft, they can fly a return to HAM, but by then it's too late to make an "early morning" return to Berlin or Dusseldorf. That way they can start with an attractive schedule and maybe cut back to only 2 or 1 aircraft when routes are not popular.
So I understand them for going "all in" on this gamble, especially if there's some incentive to ease the possible loss...

[koninckske]

All in gamble can burn all the money there is left in the bank in a few weeks, even before they are able to reduce the schedule. And then there is no more VLM. My opinion is that they are not in the position for a big gamble.

Also look at ANR with the reduced schedule to GVA: was two daily, reduced to 1 daily and now passengers don't want to book any more.Why? Beause they say we don't know if the flight will actually operate.

And tickets will only go on sale from 11 January 2016 for a 15 February 2016 start.That is only 5 weeks in advance. What can be so difficult to put it in the system today. http://www.airportzentrale.de/bodensee- ... uge/44415/

[PttU]

All in gamble can burn all the money there is left in the bank in a few weeks, even before they are able to reduce the schedule. And then there is no more VLM. My opinion is that they are not in the position for a big gamble.

Like I said: maybe the airport itself has offered some kind of compensation for the potential loss? The loss of InterSky was a serious loss for them as well...

[Avnu]

FDH airport has been so nice to tell us how big the market for these flights is by stating that the loss of InterSky has meant a reduction of passenger numbers by 115000 a year. If VLM can regain all of those passengers (including the one flying to CGN before) and will indeed offer 64 flights a week (4 flights per weekday to each destination, 2 each on Sunday to TXL and HAM), that boild down to an average load factor of... 69%. Let's assume they can pick up some extra passengers by offering the rather exotic FDH-HAM-ANR and FDH-HAM-RTM routes and we might see them hit 75%.

[Didymus]

Apparently VLM has finalised a sale-and-lease-back operation with Jetstream Aviation for an undisclosed number of Fokkers: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... or-fokkers

[ironspan]

I am always surprised by the number of people who know better. VLM Management may have made some mistakes in the past, but that does not mean they are incompetent or should be called 'amateurs'. They are accountable towards their creditors (either the banks, private funds or leasing companies), they cannot play around or act randomly.
Indeed it was a mistake to start up the LGG flights, knowing that a F50 cannot compete with a modern jet aircraft on medium distances. That is also why they should never fly from BRU, even as a feeder to SN. And every airline is adjusting their network on a regular basis (see other forum topic on 'cancellation of connections'). Has the management of Jet Airways (move to AMS), SN (stop Riga), LH (stop Kuala L.) or KL (stop Dallas) then also been gambling?
VLM found their niche in Antwerp (thanks to the short runway), and they are relatively doing OK. They still do fly twice per day to GVA, except on Mon and Fri, and the flight schedule goes back to normal as from 15th of Feb throughout the summer (check their website). Closing down their RTM office will also help.
I am sure that they got quite a nice offer from FDH, and they will continue flying as long as they receive a subsidy. Load factors of Intersky were not that bad neither.
So we should have some more confidence in VLM and support their endeavors to survive and stay independent (which SN is not anymore...). One point I agree with all of you: some stronger marketing actions and advertising would certainly do no harm!

[Flanker2]

FDH airport has been so nice to tell us how big the market for these flights is by stating that the loss of InterSky has meant a reduction of passenger numbers by 115000 a year. If VLM can regain all of those passengers (including the one flying to CGN before) and will indeed offer 64 flights a week (4 flights per weekday to each destination, 2 each on Sunday to TXL and HAM), that boild down to an average load factor of... 69%. Let's assume they can pick up some extra passengers by offering the rather exotic FDH-HAM-ANR and FDH-HAM-RTM routes and we might see them hit 75%.

Are you comparing apples to apples? Did Intersky achieve 115.000 pax per annum flying 64 flights per week to 3 destinations using 3 aircraft? I am under the impression that there were a lot more flights there.

Also why sell and leaseback aircraft that are already paid off and worse very little?
Sounds like a desperate attempt to raise money.