Will the A380 be too big? Any thoughts?

[speedbird1]

Having just posted in the "New 7E7 Orders" article it appeared to me that maybe the A380 will be too big (at the moment) Boeing don't appear to have anything bigger than the 747 in the pipeline as far as I can remember. Have Boeing figured that after the initial euphoria that will occur with the launch of the A380 aircraft, they may start flying 2/3's or 1/2 full. So just to keep with the 747 and maybe update it more for the future
Any thoughts?

Emirates

[Concorde777steward]

Yes, the A380 is somewhat too big. But i think JL & BA will order it soon (may be around 30-40). Airlines cannot fly the A380 to every destinations as it may be too big (over capacity). So, i think the B7E7 will be a more successful jetliner compared to A380. Boeing said that they have no plan to introduce a new plane to compete with the A380 because they think the B7E7 will be more popular than the A380.

[B744skipper]

I think the problem won't be if the aircraft is to big, but if the aircraft is to heavy.
But that has been said when the B747 was introduced, I think the A380 will fit.

When the A380 will arrive, will that be the end of the B747 production in the pax version?
I can see a market for the B744F although, because the A380F will be too big to be handled by some freight airports.

[speedbird1]

When I talk about how big it is, I wasn't really talking about take off weights etc, mearly about the general pax capacity. Sorry for the vague title!

Emirates

[luchtzak]

I don't know if the A380 will be too big, but it's already heavier than planned

[speedbird1]

I remember reading your post about it, should be interesting to see what happens in the next few months!

Emirates

[Buzz]

Have Boeing figured that after the initial euphoria that will occur with the launch of the A380 aircraft, they may start flying 2/3's or 1/2 full.

the key to the succes of the a380 is not flying 3 A380 instead of 3 747, but flying 2 A380 iso 3 747, thus saving on fixed costs...
If they can't fill the airbus up, they couldn't have filled the 747 up eiter.
(it would be easier to cancel one flight with the 747 though, not all positive points)

So just to keep with the 747 and maybe update it more for the future

now that's just something the airlines don't want, just another update. They would rather have an all-new design, not the next update...

[Buzz]

When I talk about how big it is, I wasn't really talking about take off weights etc, mearly about the general pax capacity. Sorry for the vague title!

Emirates

the weight does have to do with it, filling it up is the job of the airlines, but keeping the specs they promised is Airbus' job...

[B744skipper]

The key to the succes of the a380 is not flying 3 A380 instead of 3 747, but flying 2 A380 iso 3 747, thus saving on fixed costs...
If they can't fill the airbus up, they couldn't have filled the 747 up eiter.
(it would be easier to cancel one flight with the 747 though, not all positive points)

The slots on airports like LHR also play's a role here. Lets say one has 3 landing slots a day and a B744 with a capacity of 400 pax is used. That would mean that one can transport 3x400=1200 passengers.
But passenger demand is a lot higher, but because of the slots one can't fly more often into LHR. So if one can use an A380-800 with a capacity of 550 people, one can transport 3x550=1650 passengers without needing more slots.
So that is also an advantage.

[A318]

My opinion is that it is way too big to be used as a pax aircraft like I mentioned a couple of times before.
I stick with my thoughts that the 7E7 will do a much better job in pax transportation.

However, I do think the A380 will do a great job with Cargo airlines since they can reduce flights but transport the same amount of Cargo or maybe even more.

So both planes will do great but both in their own market segment.

Greetz,

Erwin

[Avro]

For the moment I do believe that both planes will have there market in the future. DOn't forget that there are some airport which will face major congestion problems in the near future. The only way to increase the number of passengers will be to fly with bigger planes.
Another market for the A380 would be the very dense routes in Asia.
On the other hand the B7E7 will be a great replacment for the current B767. I suppose that it'll fly the Atlantic, while the A380 will more likely be positioned in Asia or in the middle East.

However, I do think the A380 will do a great job with Cargo airlines since they can reduce flights but transport the same amount of Cargo or maybe even more.

Yeah, let's ask DHL to buy some A380 and to fly them to BRU :frantic:

Greetz
Chris
8)

[EB-Air]

For the moment I do believe that both planes will have there market in the future. DOn't forget that there are some airport which will face major congestion problems in the near future. The only way to increase the number of passengers will be to fly with bigger planes.
Another market for the A380 would be the very dense routes in Asia.
On the other hand the B7E7 will be a great replacment for the current B767. I suppose that it'll fly the Atlantic, while the A380 will more likely be positioned in Asia or in the middle East.

I agree with you Chris!
Each plane will have its own market, ans my opinion is that the A380 will have its major market in Asia, while the 7E7 will become the new queen of the Atlantic... (there will be some exceptions of course, like ANA and Virgin...)

Regards,
Ben

[LX-LGX]

The A380 indeed is too big for some airports, because of the wingspan!

Most of the parking bays at international airports have been constructed to accommodate 2 wide bodies next to each other. Some 10 years ago, engineers thought 65 meters would be the absolute maximum: the wingspan of a 747. But then came the A380... The problem for airlines thus is: as 2 A380's cannot be parked next to each other (at neighbooring gates), where will they be parked? On the asphalt!! Imagine the problem if 600 pax have to be transported to the plane by bus and board via escalators (maximum passenger capacity in Full-Y is 840)!

wingspan A320-200 34,10 meters
wingspan A300-600R : 44,84 meters
wingspan B767-300 : 47,57 meters
wingspan MD11 : 51,70 meters
wingspan B747-200 : 59,64 meters
wingspan A330-200 : 60,30 meters
wingspan A340-300 : 60,30 meters
wingspan B747-400 : 64,44 meters
wingspan A380-800 : 79,80 meters

I'm sure however that Airbus is working on this problem.

[sn26567]

Good analysis, LX-LGX.

However, at how many airports will A380s be parked next to each other?

And at those airports, it will always be possible to park an A320 next to an A380!

[Buzz]

However, I do think the A380 will do a great job with Cargo airlines since they can reduce flights but transport the same amount of Cargo or maybe even more.

why would it work for cargo but not for passengers?
You can use exactely the same logic...

So both planes will do great but both in their own market segment.

Unlike the 747, the A380 was never originally intended to be a cargo aircraft... It's a nice extra, but if it was intended as a cargo hauler, it would have had a cocpit on the upper deck and a nose door at least...
Now it's only good for smaller cargo (express like FedEx etc is perfect for it), and not the large cargo the 747 is good at.

[Avro]

It's a nice extra, but if it was intended as a cargo hauler, it would have had a cocpit on the upper deck and a nose door at least...
Now it's only good for smaller cargo (express like FedEx etc is perfect for it), and not the large cargo the 747 is good at.

Nice analysis Buzz !! I didn't realize that yet. But as you mentioned the B744F will still keep a big advantage compared to the A380F, and that's the nose cargo door. So in fact both planes the A380F and the B744F could be complementary and not really big competitors

Chris
8)

[speedbird1]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, should be cool to see the A380. Personally I can't wait!

Emirates

[LX-LGX]

Buzz, allow me to disagree: the A380F is as good a A380 as the one we will fly in, and Airbus has worked on the 380F as from day one.

Fedex already ordered 10 Freighters, ILFC 5 and Emirates 2. Entry in service is only planned for 2008.

Why would they need a nose door if there are three decks and five doors? Just read what airbus.com says about their A380F:

The A380 Freighter will carry a 330,000 lbs/150 tonnes over 5,600nm/10,400km on its three decks. With the capability to carry 150 tonnes of payload on standard pallets, on all three decks, over more than 5,600 nm/10,400 km, the A380F will bring new levels of efficiency to the cargo market.

A whole new reference in freighter cost, its range advantage allows the A380F to simplify operations and eliminate intermediate stops, further lowering costs and accelerating freight service.

Three decks of standard containers, accessible simultaneously through five doors allow unprecedented flexibility for the growing, global supply chain management network.

[Avro]

LX-LGX,

Yes the A380 will be optimal for the segments with a lot of small cargo, but if the A380 has 3 decks of cargo space who can only be loaded with the common containers, then the A380 won't be able to transport some larger cargo which the B744F on the other hand can. If you have a nose cargo door, then if I'm not mistaken it's possible to load some very long cargo pieces, while this isn't possible if you only have side doors.
My conclusion from this, is that the B744F isn't dead and that it could still have its place in the future.

Greetz
Chris
8)

[sn26567]

Instead of a nose cargo door, wouldn't it be easy to imagine a backdoor with a ramp like on the military transport planes?

Any idea whether Airbus has such plans for the A380?