Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

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Flanker2
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Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Flanker2 »

(Reuters) - Airbus Group NV (AIR.PA) said on Tuesday that it has begun offering airlines a long-range version of its A321neo jetliner, aimed at replacing Boeing Co's (BA.N) 757 jetliner, a long-range single-aisle jet that is no longer in production.

"The long-range version of the A321neo will be the ideal 757 replacement with true transatlantic range, 25 percent lower fuel burn and true long-range comfort," an Airbus representative told Reuters.

The new jet would fill a gap in the product line for a single-aisle plane that can fly farther than Boeing's 737 or the Airbus A320, a niche long seen as one that Boeing might also seek to fill.

The new A321neo jet would have a flying range about 100 nautical miles greater than the 757-200W, and would seat about 164 passengers, similar to the 757's capacity of 169, but with 18-inch-wide seats and room for lie-flat beds in business class, Airbus said.

The Toulouse, France-based plane maker said it foresees the jet entering service in 2019.

"We are actively discussing this A321neo development with customers," Airbus said. "The increased 97-tonne maximum take-off weight and additional fuel capacity will give the A321neo a significant range increase overtaking the 757 currently operating on the transatlantic."

The jet will carry additional fuel tanks, but normal A321neos cannot be retrofitted to extend their range, according to Seattle-based aerospace consulting firm Leeham News and Comment, which first reported on the new plane earlier on Tuesday.

Boeing was not immediately available to comment.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/ ... IL20141021


This is the ultiumate CASM killer... and maybe what FR needs to launch their TATL ops???
Could be a good aircraft for SN's African operations too, if they survive and can get a few of these.

White Light
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by White Light »

Flanker2 wrote:Could be a good aircraft for SN's African operations too, if they survive and can get a few of these
or for the evening flight to IAD (at least during the winter season)

sn-remember
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

Wow it might indeed become successful with many airlines..
Let's be BRU centric for a change ;)
Image
(courtesy of gc mapper)
Range featured between 3200 an 3900 nm.
Not sure there's a business case dor SN though since a cargo belly is really important to their operation. And the payload (around 166 pax) seems too limited.
In the ME however actors like QR or EY could well be interested. Probably also TK and some others ...
Some AFI startups might well be interested too...

Flanker2
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Flanker2 »

Range featured between 3200 an 3900 nm.
Not sure there's a business case dor SN though since a cargo belly is really important to their operation. And the payload (around 166 pax) seems too limited.
In the ME however actors like QR or EY could well be interested. Probably also TK and some others ...
Some AFI startups might well be interested too...
The A321 has a great cargo belly. 7 to 9 AKH positions (depending on auxiliary tanks needed) good for 30 pieces of luggage each + bulk.
If that isn't a cargo champion, what is?

But that's not the problem for SN. EIS is in 2019, so the challenge for SN is to be there by the time they can get these, and our friend MOL seems eager to get it over with by next year or so...

IF they make it until this aircraft comes out, then IAD daily, JFK daily, EWR daily, BOS daily and Canada all 3 major airports daily can be run with profits.
This aircraft can replace the A330's on all SN routes and even enable an increase in frequencies, all while burning a minimum of fuel.

According to my calculations; an A321NEO would save about 30% in direct operating costs over an A333 on TATL ops, and in SN's triangle African operations more like 40%.
Or in reverse, the A333 has 40% higher costs on TATL and even 60% higher costs in African triangle ops.

So the question is whether the additional cargo capacity is worth paying 60% higher costs per seat on the passenger side.... you know the answer.

I can see FR buying these and flying them out of CRL. Isn't that why CRL is extending the runway?

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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

Well you can't compare oranges and apples ...
On 2 obvious criteria at least : size and technology
To put the technology criteria aside, you should compare with the A333neo
To put the size criteria aside, you should compare CASM.(even so it's not easy to evaluate)
I don't have the figures published for the CASM of the A321NEO-LR and A330neo.(but I can try find them if you want)
I would not bet the farm that the A321NEO-LR CASM will be lower ..
..
SN is a mixed bag, and on 2nd thoughts there might be some sense for them to consider the A321NEO-LR strategy on routes where cargo is not key.
But I know that many of their routes are dependant on cargo haul.
So a mixed fleet A330/A321NEO-LR might be the way to go for them ...
Anyhow I don't think they can afford purchasing or leasing the A333NEO for the time being, although some of their A330 are getting quite old. And the 2nd hand market alternative is limited for the time being.

Passenger
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Passenger »

Sorry to interrupt the party, but does someone knows if Airbus, by any chance, has a Sales Department?

And if so: could it be possible, by any chance, that this Airbus Sales Department already has contacted Brussels Airlines about this new A321 version?

sn-remember
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

U're welcome to the party :)
Probably too early .. no ?

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RoMax
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by RoMax »

sn-remember wrote:U're welcome to the party :)
Probably too early .. no ?
Normally they talk to airlines already before launching an aircraft (verion) to explore market demand, and as I believe SN looked at the A321(neo) for its future fleet development (for the Africa network), I think it's quite certain that at least Airbus contacted SN (and the LH Group in general) about this new version.

Passenger
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Passenger »

Please go on with your calculations - a joke every now and then is welcome. By the way, the runway extension at CRL for this A321 is a good one!

Back op topic : may I please point you to the first phrase of the Reuters press release? "Airbus Group said on Tuesday that it has begun offering airlines a long-range version of its A321neo jetliner, aimed at replacing Boeing's 757 jetliner, a long-range single-aisle jet that is no longer in production. "The long-range version of the A321neo will be the ideal 757 replacement with true transatlantic range, 25 percent lower fuel burn and true long-range comfort," an Airbus representative told Reuters.

Flanker2
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Flanker2 »

Sn-Remember, by DOC, I mean DOC per seat, which is the same as CASM.
Hence yes, CASM would be 40-60% higher on the A333.

Passenger is trolling around again:
Passenger wrote: By the way, the runway extension at CRL for this A321 is a good one!
Why is it a good one? Explain.

And why do you point to that part of the article when anyone could read it?
You're weird man, get a life.

sn-remember
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

Passenger wrote:Please go on with your calculations - a joke every now and then is welcome. By the way, the runway extension at CRL for this A321 is a good one!
Passenger would you care to elaborate ?

Lysexpat
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Lysexpat »

Passenger wrote:Sorry to interrupt the party, but does someone knows if Airbus, by any chance, has a Sales Department?
And if so: could it be possible, by any chance, that this Airbus Sales Department already has contacted Brussels Airlines about this new A321 version?
Why should they contact SN who has never bought a factory new aircraft? Airbus knows who has and who hasn't the necessary funds to buy. Without any doubt AA, BA, EZY and FR have been approached by Airbus. As overcapacity is looming this new aircraft could be successful.

Passenger
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by Passenger »

sn-remember wrote:
Passenger wrote:Please go on with your calculations - a joke every now and then is welcome. By the way, the runway extension at CRL for this A321 is a good one!
Passenger would you care to elaborate ?
Because our nitwit wrote that Ryanair could well order these A321's, and that the runway extension in Charleroi is extended for that reason:
Flanker2 wrote:I can see FR buying these and flying them out of CRL. Isn't that why CRL is extending the runway?
I'm not going to say that this blooper surpasses Flanker's Kinshasa N'Dolo story - but equal first seems fair.

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RoMax
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by RoMax »

Lysexpat wrote: Why should they contact SN who has never bought a factory new aircraft? Airbus knows who has and who hasn't the necessary funds to buy. Without any doubt AA, BA, EZY and FR have been approached by Airbus. As overcapacity is looming this new aircraft could be successful.
SN is an A320 family user and has the network that could fit the A321neo-LR. If the sales team doesn't even have a brief contact with SN, they wouldn't sell a lot of aircraft to 'new' customers. But in case of SN, as they don't have the money to buy or even lease* new aircraft, it's also (mainly) the LH Group as a whole they'll target.

*even when you order new aircraft as an airline, that doesn't mean you will actually own them, a lot of aircraft are sold in a sale and leaseback construction to name something.

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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

@Flanker2
To give an idea about a/c type CASM comparaison, I found an old reference, dated 2005 but still valid and interesting IMO :

Image
From http://www.aircraft-commerce.com/sample ... sample.pdf
..
As you can see from the chart, the casm of A332 vs A321 is estimated at 8.16 vs 7.30 which is 11% higner for the former.
Of course this doesn't take into account the considerable cargo space difference between the 2, which makes the A332 a potentially good profit maker provided it is adequately loaded and priced.
..
Now extrapolating a bit into the future (2018 onwards) ...
Of course the A321neolr will have better numbers, airbus claims it would be around 25% (?) less costly than the B757. Which would feature a casm around 5.9 which seems too good to be true ..
Following this reasoning, the A332ceo would have a considerable 36% higher casm.
And assuming the a333ceo has a casm around 8 and the a333neo (13% better) around 7, the latter would still be significantly (16%) more costly seat*mile wise than the A321neolr. However the additional cargo revenue may still easily make up for the difference. BTW the same holds for the B787-800/900 deemed 2 to 3% better than its airbus A330 neo counterparts (casm around 7minus I would suggest) depending on the mission.
..
Anyways this sort of estimate must of course be taken with a pinch of salt ..
Besides, much depends on the yields and the actual payload.
..
@Passenger, Flanker2
We shall see what MOL decides .. Until now while repeatedly hinting at a possible Trans Athantic LC operation, he always postponed. True the "right" plane was not there.. or wasn't it ?
Meanwhile DY boldly started with a similar concept based on the B787-800. We shall see how it pans out but they undoubtedly took the lead.
Last edited by sn-remember on 24 Oct 2014, 13:04, edited 32 times in total.

cnc
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by cnc »

SN has no money for brand new A321's

sn-remember
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

cnc wrote:SN has no money for brand new A321's
Well maybe, maybe not ..
If their case is solid, why not ?
Carsten Spohr has maybe also something to say ...
But if they do, better order it sooner than later.

OO-ITR
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by OO-ITR »

Does anyone know if SN needs to wait for the arrival of the LR version to fly to some of their West African destinations? Like DKR, BJL, CKY ...

sn-remember
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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

@OO-ITR
dkr and bjl I would say they can do it ..
Cky and beyond, I have doubts without payload restriction.
..
I didn't do a torough search though, just based myself on the doh-gva flight QR operates using the presumably fully loaded A320.
Image
(courtesy of gc mapper) Range 2500 nm
---
After a quick search, it seems that QR operates the flight with a slight load restriction ..
Cf travel report http://flight-report.com/fr/report-8023.html
"à noter que la capacité en classe Eco a été diminuée de 132 à 120 sièges sur les A320 réaménagés"
12J 120Y (iof 132)
..
Note also that the GF flights to Europe, in particular bah-lhr (currently the longest A320 scheduled route according to wiki) which is 2754 nm (compared to doh-gva 2506nm) are operated with 14J 96Y configurated A320's.
..
So maybe the bru-dkr flight (2414 nm) would require some slight load restriction after all ?

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Re: Airbus to launch A321NEO-LR with 3900NM TATL range

Post by sn-remember »

Wow this is starnge !
The design range (as reported on the QR on board leaflets) of the A320 seems a bit stretched to me ..
Or did I miss something ?
;)
Image

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