Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

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sn-remember
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn-remember »

That's not what I am saying .. pls read again ?
sn-remember wrote: Pax tested negative at arrival airport should be retested every 48h at least, possibly at home provided the procedure is properly enforced .. (in that case removing the need for public authoriries isolation)

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

sn-remember wrote:That's not what I am saying .. pls read again ?
sn-remember wrote: Pax tested negative at arrival airport should be retested every 48h at least, possibly at home provided the procedure is properly enforced .. (in that case removing the need for public authoriries isolation)
I see. So a re-check every 48 hours, during the 21 days incubation period. You will need 10 test kits per person. I don't know the unit kit price, but I guess it will probably become cheaper (and safer!!!) to give each arriving passenger a Braun digital forehead thermometer.

sn-remember
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn-remember »

The sooner the disease is detected, the better. For the patient and his circle of close acquaintances. If the test is available and cheap, with early accuracy, there is every reason to do it.

Flanker2
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Flanker2 »

Canada joins Australia in extensive travel ban for travel from Ebola-hit countries.

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

Flanker2 wrote:Canada joins Australia in extensive travel ban for travel from Ebola-hit countries.
You have forgotten one relevant country in this list : North Korea.

Few days ago, Doctors Without Borders (MSF/AZG) has explained for the zillionth time why a mandatory quarantine and a travel ban increase the risk of ebola cases outside West Africa:

...We need to be guided by science and not political agendas. "The best way to reduce the risk of Ebola spreading outside West Africa is to fight it there. Policies that undermine this course of action, or deter skilled personnel from offering their help, are short sighted. We need to look beyond our own borders to stem this epidemic", said Dr. Joanne Liu, international president of MSF.

...Medical science has demonstrated that asymptomatic people with Ebola infection do not transmit the virus. Ebola is also not an airborne virus, like cold or flu viruses. It is only transmitted through direct contact with an infected, symptomatic person’s body fluids, such as blood, vomit and feces".


Full statement:
http://www.msf.org/article/ebola-quaran ... b-epidemic

FlightMate
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by FlightMate »

The ban on visa to enter Canada only concerns foreigners who've been to these countries in the last x weeks or months.
Canadian doctors will still be able to go to Africa to fight Ebola and then go back to Canada.

Why is it a problem, then?

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

FlightMate wrote:The ban on visa to enter Canada only concerns foreigners who've been to these countries in the last x weeks or months. Canadian doctors will still be able to go to Africa to fight Ebola and then go back to Canada. Why is it a problem, then?
The problem is described in this article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ebola-c ... -1.2820090

...The change was announced Friday in the Canada Gazette. In a news release issued some hours later, the government said it was taking "new precautionary measures to protect the health and safety of Canadians." The government said the move does not affect Canadians in West Africa; Canadian health-care workers helping in the effort to contain Ebola will be permitted back into Canada, the release said. As well, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander retains the discretion to grant entry on a case-by-case basis in exceptional circumstances "where travel is essential and in Canada's interest."

...David Fidler, Indiana University and an international law expert, denounced the move, saying it was a violation of the International Health Regulations (IHR), which Canada helped to draft in the aftermath of the 2003 SARS outbreak. Fidler said the decisions of Canada and Australia to close their doors to the citizens of the affected countries runs the risk of destroying the IHR, as the treaty is called. "The whole thing that so many years and so many efforts and so much money was spent on just seems to be disintegrating in this Ebola panic," Fidler said of the treaty. “And to have countries like Australia and Canada be in the forefront of this is even more disheartening, because they had been shoulder to shoulder with us trying to build these regimes, these approaches and to keep us focused on having a disciplined approach in a [disease] crisis. Now they are back to allowing fear and politics drive responses to a disease threat. And we know that only ends up in a bad place… There isn't a public health or scientific justification for what Australia and Canada are doing. Therefore they are in violation of their obligations under the international health regulations”, Fidler said.

... Under the IHR, countries agree not to restrict trade or travel over and above what is recommended by the WHO during Public Health Emergencies of International Concern. The WHO declared Ebola an international public health emergency on Aug. 8 and in doing so said countries should not close their borders to the West African countries struggling with Ebola. It has repeated that advice several times since. The IHR stipulate that countries that go beyond the WHO's recommendations have to back up their decisions with solid rationale.

... Fidler said that Canada and Australia — both major contributors to international public health efforts and supporters of the WHO — are taking these actions is particularly disheartening. You think about Australia and the leadership it's taken in global health on the tobacco issue. You think about Canada and the contributions it has made to global health over the years — maternal and child health, supporting WHO, CIDA. Canada is known as being a champion of well-informed, scientifically based, evidence-solid policies. Both Australia and Canada have the capacity to deal with this issue in a way which doesn't have such adverse effects on these West African countries which are suffering from this unprecedented epidemic."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ebola-c ... -1.2820090

andorra-airport
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by andorra-airport »

Ebola situation in Sierra Leone is "catastrophic" and "vastly under-reported" - "There are several villages and communities that have been basically wiped out. In one of the villages I went to, there were 40 inhabitants and 39 died.

http://news.yahoo.com/leone-ebola-outbr ... 1.html?q=1

Flanker2
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Flanker2 »

The reality will probably be more around 30.000-50.000 actual existing cases at this point, with many being rejected by the field hospitals and others simply unwilling or unable to seek help, hence going unreported.

Compare it with obesity, road accidents and cigarette statistics if you wish, but the tragedy about Ebola is that it can strike much faster and do much more damage in the near future. Once it reaches in the millions, there is no way to stop it. Many weak and immuno-deficient people will die even with an existing and effective cure.

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

Flanker2 wrote:The reality will probably be more around 30.000-50.000 actual existing cases at this point, with many being rejected by the field hospitals and others simply unwilling or unable to seek help, hence going unreported.
What is your source or your medical classification to deny the official World Health Organization (WHO) correction factor of 2.5? So far 4.951 people have died on a total of 13.567 reported cases. Read the article: "The WHO says there is a correction factor of 2.5, so it could be 10.000, 15.000 or 20.000 fatalities" (quote from doctor Zachariah, Médecins Sans Frontières).

Your remark "unwilling or unable" is as wrong: it's "unaware". And that is why the ebola case in Mali isn't becoming an outbreak there: because Médecins Sans Frontières was already in Mali, advising the local population about the risk of forthcoming ebola.
Flanker2 wrote:Compare it with obesity, road accidents and cigarette statistics if you wish, but the tragedy about Ebola is that it can strike much faster and do much more damage in the near future. Once it reaches in the millions, there is no way to stop it. Many weak and immuno-deficient people will die even with an existing and effective cure.
Wrong : ebola is a slow spreader. You need to have very close contact with an ill patient.
Wrong : ebola will not "reach in the millions".
Wrong : ebola is not unstoppable. A vaccin to prevent new cases will be ready soon.
Wrong : "weak and immuno-deficient people" will not die once there is a also medecin to cure ebola. And ebola will never reach resistency: the pharma world will anticipate to that. Just like they've done it with Influenza (the vaccin for 2014/2015 is based upon medical research from 2013/2014 Influenza).

Flanker2
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Flanker2 »

Passenger wrote:Flanker2 wrote:
The reality will probably be more around 30.000-50.000 actual existing cases at this point, with many being rejected by the field hospitals and others simply unwilling or unable to seek help, hence going unreported.

What is your source or your medical classification to deny the official World Health Organization (WHO) correction factor of 2.5? So far 4.951 people have died on a total of 13.567 reported cases. Read the article: "The WHO says there is a correction factor of 2.5, so it could be 10.000, 15.000 or 20.000 fatalities" (quote from doctor Zachariah, Médecins Sans Frontières).
Read the article yourself!
I'm saying "actual existing cases", your 10.000, 15.000, 20.000 are FATALITIES!

ie if the WHO math is too hard for you: 5000 fatalities + ( 5000 fat. x 2.5) = 17.500 Fatalities

A correction factor of 2.5 on 13567 cases (not fatalities) means it could be up to almost 50.000 cases. :roll:

b-west

Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by b-west »

A correction factor of 2.5 on 13567 cases (not fatalities) means it could be up to almost 50.000 cases. :roll:
Actually it's 34.000
Is it allowed to disrupt the forum with such blatantly ignorant/misiformed posts?
dunno if it is, but looking at your posts, apparently disruption by fearmongering is.

airazurxtror
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by airazurxtror »

On Friday Canadian federal citizenship ministry announced the suspension of visa applications from foreigners, who have visited Ebola-hit countries within the last three months. Canada's immigration minister described the step as a precautionary measure to protect the health of Canadians.
Theo Nicol, Sierra Leone's deputy information minister, told Agence France Presse Saturday.
"Canada's action is not taken with the interests of west African states in mind."

No, Canada's action is taken with the interest of Canada in mind - as it should be.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

Flanker2
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Flanker2 »

B-West, the correction factor is probably refering to the margin of correction and comes in addition to the confirmed cases/fatalities. Otherwise the 20.000 fatalities mentionned may be too much of a stretch given 5000 x 2.5 = 12.500.

Fear-mongering is a bit necessary don't you think? The Belgian government doesn't exactly sound concerned or committed to stop this thing? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Janssen Pharmaceutica is working on a vaccine? Is the Belgian government putting money before its people?

American parent J&J is pumping 158 millions in Janssen Pharmaceutica for Ebola research:
http://www.janssenbelgium.be/en/health/ ... la-vaccine

Don't forget that MSF have been leading the warning campaign, and operating their Ebola base out Brussels

First they spread fear using multiple warnings and on the other side the governments are doing everything to spread the disease over the globe, while pretending to be the rational point of view.

Are they trying to hold the world hostage for ransom using Ebola?
It certainly looks that way to me.

What did I say again in the MH17 thread? MH17 was only the beginning.
MH17 was step one, ISIS step two, Ebola step three.
The U.S. and Europe through its capital Brussels are obviously working together on this one.
How else are they going to re-launch our bankrupt economies?

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sn26567
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by sn26567 »

Moderation in action!

Gentlemen, please, only facts substantiated by sources, not wild guesses !!!
André
ex Sabena #26567

Inquirer
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Inquirer »

Flanker2 wrote: Fear-mongering is a bit necessary don't you think? The Belgian government doesn't exactly sound concerned or committed to stop this thing?
Don't take this this forum too seriously, I would advice you.

Other than the handful of members who still post in this topic, most people have given up on even just reading along what you and others still post here all while in the popular press, Ebola is off the front covers too by now.

Anyway: do you really think you will be able to make an impact from behind your screen, posting from early morning till late at night? Whether it's on Ebola, or any other topic you waste loads of your ample free time on, nobody takes what is written here very seriously for the simple fact that this is a forum for amateurs, by amateurs and so full of amateurs to start with. Real professionals have other things to do than to spend their life online, I imagine, and if they occasionally come online, it's probably to have a very good laugh at what is predicted here by people like you, really; thuis forum is just for sharing information and asking questions: not the place where you'll change anything in real life. For that, you'll have to get from behind your screen and actually come outside.
Last edited by Inquirer on 02 Nov 2014, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by jan_olieslagers »

All very true. And yet I seem to remember this forum was originally started by a couple of chaps working at Brussels Airport, and was intended for sharing professional information regarding commercial air transport. A kind of professional rumour network, so to speak :lol: . What went wrong?

FlightMate
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by FlightMate »

Now, Flanker, you're starting to make me doubt about the real danger of Ebola ;-)

I always think everything in this world is about money.

No need to really spread the virus, as long as the fear is there, they will sell their vaccine for billions. Same for the H1N1 and the tamiflu.

5000, 10000, 50000 cases? Peanuts compared to other diseases. See? User Passenger even almost convinced me :-)

I'd like to know, though, how the infected nurses or doctors got cured from it, in our western hospitals.
Experimental drug, or just basic care?

Passenger
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by Passenger »

Flanker2 wrote:Fear-mongering is a bit necessary don't you think? The Belgian government doesn't exactly sound concerned or committed to stop this thing? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Janssen Pharmaceutica is working on a vaccine? Is the Belgian government putting money before its people?

American parent J&J is pumping 158 millions in Janssen Pharmaceutica for Ebola research:
http://www.janssenbelgium.be/en/health/ ... la-vaccine

Don't forget that MSF have been leading the warning campaign, and operating their Ebola base out Brussels. First they spread fear using multiple warnings and on the other side the governments are doing everything to spread the disease over the globe, while pretending to be the rational point of view. Are they trying to hold the world hostage for ransom using Ebola? It certainly looks that way to me.

What did I say again in the MH17 thread? MH17 was only the beginning. MH17 was step one, ISIS step two, Ebola step three. The U.S. and Europe through its capital Brussels are obviously working together on this one. How else are they going to re-launch our bankrupt economies?
We've seen some strange posts here before, but this one beats them all.

Although... Won't take long before MH370 will also be involved in this script.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

Post by jan_olieslagers »

only facts substantiated by sources, not wild guesses
No need to feed the trolls.

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