Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

[regi]

And you honestly believe that...?

It is not about believing 1 particular story from one involved party.
It is about not believing any story untill acceptable proof has been provided.
We have been cheated too often. WMD as casu belli, remember?

[Passenger]

Some medical facts, given by James Vosswinkel, chief of trauma and surgical critical care at the State University of New York. He was also involved in the investigation into the TWA-800 crash (1996):

I quote:

- the blast force from the missile, combined with the plane’s dramatic deceleration, probably instantly rendered everyone on board unconscious or dead;

- trauma in a mid-air explosion occurs from three sources: the force of the blast, the massive deceleration when a plane going 500 miles an hour stops in mid-air, and the impact of the fall;

- additionally, the loss of cabin pressure can cause hypoxia within seconds at 33,000 feet, leading to loss of consciousness;

- you have such horrific forces that it’s essentially unsurvivable. No one was conscious or experienced that fall.

Source:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/19 ... ctor-says/

[RTM]

I do share the opinion that the Netherlands is not a neutral partner for this investigation. But immediately I have to add that it is almost impossible to find now a neutral investigation board. India, Japan, Switzerland and Brasil might have been better options.

Maybe not a neutral partner, but for sure one that will be very motivated and dedicated to find out, and bring out the truth. And nothing but the truth.

[Flanker2]

Maybe not a neutral partner, but for sure one that will be very motivated and dedicated to find out, and bring out the truth. And nothing but the truth.

Such investigation's purpose is to find the reason the aircraft crashed. If it was a missile, the type of missile may be pursued, as well as the location it may have been fired from. But that's probably as far as an air accident investigation will go.
An accident investigation will not pursue who did it, that's the job of a criminal investigation.

That's why I don't understand why the Dutch Safety Board has taken this one in in the first place.

[Passenger]

Maybe not a neutral partner, but for sure one that will be very motivated and dedicated to find out, and bring out the truth. And nothing but the truth.

Such investigation's purpose is to find the reason the aircraft crashed. If it was a missile, the type of missile may be pursued, as well as the location it may have been fired from. But that's probably as far as an air accident investigation will go. An accident investigation will not pursue who did it, that's the job of a criminal investigation. That's why I don't understand why the Dutch Safety Board has taken this one in in the first place.

The Dutch Onderzoeksraad is the best authority to investigate this crash. They have the knowledge, they have experience, they have access to all sources and they are immune for whatever political pressure from whatever party involved (including from their own government). The Onderzoeksraad stated that there is also a criminal investigation taking please: not by them, but by the Dutch public prosecutor (see last quote).

These are all unedited quotes from their website:

The Dutch Safety Board is conducting three investigations as a result of the crash of flight MH17.

Circumstances

The first investigation will focus on establishing the cause of the plane crash. This is an international investigation, involving several countries, and will be conducted in accordance with the rules of ICAO. The Dutch Safety Board will take the lead in this investigation. Facts that are obtained as a result of the investigation will be used to establish the cause of the crash and rule out other possible causes.

The aim of the international investigation is to provide next of kin and the (international) community with information regarding the cause of the crash. For this reason, the investigation must be conducted carefully, using all of the available information to uncover the exact cause and, in turn, rule out any other possible causes. The investigation must ensure that the conclusion regarding the cause of the crash is undisputed and thus generally accepted. The Board would also like to prevent next of kin being confronted, in the future, with new speculation that could cause uncertainty regarding the circumstances of the disaster.

Alongside the internationally coordinated investigation into the cause of the plane crash, the Dutch Safety Board will also conduct two additional investigations.

Flight path

An investigation into the decision-making process regarding flight paths and the risk assessment that was conducted when choosing to fly over Eastern Ukraine. The Board will not only look at past events but will also review the system in general in order to learn valuable lessons for the future.

Passenger list

An investigation into the creation of the passenger list in general and why the full list was not available for flight MH17 immediately. On the one hand, the Board will examine this process with respect to flight MH17. On the other, the organisation regarding passenger lists and their compilation in general will also be investigated in order to provide lessons for the future.

- - - - -

The Dutch Board of Safety will not make any statements with regard to blame or liability and these issues will not form part of the investigation.

The investigation into the crash will be conducted by an international investigation team under the leadership of the Dutch Safety Board. This team will investigate the cause and circumstances of the crash on the basis of factual information. The Dutch Safety Board will thus provide an overview that is as comprehensive and undisputed as possible to the next of kin and the international community.

Alongside the international investigation under the leadership of the Dutch Safety Board, the Dutch government has initiated two further, ongoing investigations. One concerns an investigation into the identification and repatriation of victims by the National Team of Forensic Examination (LFTO). This large-scale team is expected to examine the entire disaster area in order to salvage and recover the victims and the personal belongings that are still there. The other investigation from the Dutch government is a criminal investigation under the leadership of the Public Prosecution Service (OM).

[Flanker2]

The Board would also like to prevent next of kin being confronted, in the future, with new speculation that could cause uncertainty regarding the circumstances of the disaster.

The Dutch Safety Board will thus provide an overview that is as comprehensive and undisputed as possible to the next of kin and the international community.

There it is... the emotion factor.

I've never heard of an investigating authority listing "next of kin" or "international community" as interested parties. The interest of any accident investigation should be the improvement of safety and prevention of future accidents! Also, IMO the next of kin's emotions should not put pressure on the Board to change its story if new facts arise during or after the investigation, while here they do list it as a factor.

This is exactly what I was afraid for. The investigation hasn't started yet and they're botching it already.

What is your opinion on this Passenger?
Do you think that these comments are appropriate?

[b-west]

So in a crash with loss of life, next of kin aren't interested parties? Honestly...

I've got to admit it though, nobody trolls like you troll...

[flightlover]

The Board would also like to prevent next of kin being confronted, in the future, with new speculation that could cause uncertainty regarding the circumstances of the disaster.

The Dutch Safety Board will thus provide an overview that is as comprehensive and undisputed as possible to the next of kin and the international community.

There it is... the emotion factor.

I've never heard of an investigating authority listing "next of kin" or "international community" as interested parties. The interest of any accident investigation should be the improvement of safety and prevention of future accidents! Also, IMO the next of kin's emotions should not put pressure on the Board to change its story if new facts arise during or after the investigation, while here they do list it as a factor.

This is exactly what I was afraid for. The investigation hasn't started yet and they're botching it already.

What is your opinion on this Passenger?
Do you think that these comments are appropriate?

Flanker, maybe you should learn how to read and understand. These extracts you quote are just to explain that they are looking for the facts off the crash, not to put the blame on any one. So the question they will answer is why did MH17 from the sky? Was it due to a structural failure after an explosion, a rupture in the skin off the a/c or a or any other reason why an a/c can fall from the sky.

If all facts are known and all possibilities have been looked at, the result will be that next of kin can understand what happened. So that they can start processing their grieve and angers that may exist at this time.

But maybe you like the idea off conclusions that are being disputed over and over again.

[sean1982]

The Board would also like to prevent next of kin being confronted, in the future, with new speculation that could cause uncertainty regarding the circumstances of the disaster.

The Dutch Safety Board will thus provide an overview that is as comprehensive and undisputed as possible to the next of kin and the international community.

There it is... the emotion factor.

I've never heard of an investigating authority listing "next of kin" or "international community" as interested parties. The interest of any accident investigation should be the improvement of safety and prevention of future accidents! Also, IMO the next of kin's emotions should not put pressure on the Board to change its story if new facts arise during or after the investigation, while here they do list it as a factor.

This is exactly what I was afraid for. The investigation hasn't started yet and they're botching it already.

What is your opinion on this Passenger?
Do you think that these comments are appropriate?

I hope you never have to lose someone you love in circumstances like that. Their corpse shown on tv. Letting them rot for days in the fields. Robbed from their posessions: wedding rings, camera's, phones, wallets.
Just try for one second with your mind, that is clearly uncapable of processing emotion, to imagine it was your wife or child lying there. And you say they are "no interested party"?
You are dispicable!

[RTM]

Wel said Sean.


On topic, today the, for the time being, last transport of bodies will be done to the Netherlands. According Dutch media, it will be 38 caskets. So with the previous transports, 40 on wednesday, 74 on thursday and 75 yesterday, the total amount stands at 227 caskets. Unclear of coarse how many of these contain more or less complete bodies, and how many contain just partial remains.

Also, the same Dutch media (Telegraaf.nl) reports that Ausstralian investigators found more remains on the crashsite.

I truly hope they will find them all...

[Flanker2]

I hope you never have to lose someone you love in circumstances like that. Their corpse shown on tv. Letting them rot for days in the fields. Robbed from their posessions: wedding rings, camera's, phones, wallets.
Just try for one second with your mind, that is clearly uncapable of processing emotion, to imagine it was your wife or child lying there. And you say they are "no interested party"?
You are dispicable!

You are clearly under stress from this accident if you have to pull out such insults. Remember that the people who have facilitated this accident are no one less than you and me and others who have voted our representatives. Our representatives have then pushed for a revolution in a poor but peaceful country for no other reason than financial gain and military strategy.

The blood is on the hands of the people who have pulled the trigger, but it is also on our hands.
Hence, I find it selfish of all of us to say that we are not responsible for these deaths and that we are mourning them.

The same way we are also responsible for what is happening in Gaza, where we gave a country that was not ours, in compensation of the genocide that took place in Germany. Look at the result: now the genocidees are the ones genociding.

Good for you if you can insult people and not feel responsible for what is happening.

[sn26567]

The International Air Transport Association (IATA) will attend a special high-level meeting next Tuesday 29 July at the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) to discuss issues surrounding the downing of MH17.

The meeting will be held at ICAO’s Montreal Headquarters, in the presence of both the Secretary General and the President of the Council. IATA’s Director-General and CEO Tony Tyler will attend, along with the Directors-General of Airports Council International (ACI) and the Civil Air Navigation Services Organisation (CANSO). The meeting will discuss appropriate actions to be pursued in order to more effectively mitigate potential risks to civil aviation arising from conflict zones.

[sn26567]

A first victim has been identified in the Hilversum lab. His identity has not been released, only his nationality: Ducth. His family and the mayor of his town have been informed.

[Flanker2]

I didn't see it mentionned here but 2 days ago, the Ukrainian government collapsed in the aftermath of MH17.

[flightlover]

I didn't see it mentionned here but 2 days ago, the Ukrainian government collapsed in the aftermath of MH17.

That is unrelated news as it was because of disagreement over the budget.
Unfortunate timing maybe, but unrelated non the less.

[Flanker2]

I didn't see it mentionned here but 2 days ago, the Ukrainian government collapsed in the aftermath of MH17.

That is unrelated news as it was because of disagreement over the budget.
Unfortunate timing maybe, but unrelated non the less.

I don't think that it's unrelated. I think that MH17 was the big cherry on the cake.



Don't forget that the parliament who is in place was elected by the people while this interim government was not.

[Novastar]

Flanker...I wonder why you haven't been banned from this forum yet... again ??

Your comments are just dispicable. You must live in your own special little world where you believe all the crap that you spread around this forum. Clearly something is wrong with you.

You call it a parade and a tool of propaganda.. are you f*cking serious ?

At last the victims got the dignity and honor they deserved... Who are you to question that ?

Sent from my LG-G3

[Flanker2]

Dignity and respect you say?

23/07/2014

http://www.hardenberg.nu/pub/media/NDU2 ... swKzA=.jpg


26/07/2014

http://1.hbvlcdn.be/Assets/Images_Uploa ... 7/26/2.jpg

Note: nothing personal towards Prince Laurent, just proving that you're taking this ceremony for much more than the people who were running it!

[crlhub]

http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/m ... ag-attack/

www.les-crises.fr/mh17-une-enquete/

[Novastar]

What does Laurent being at TML 3 days later have anything to do with it ?

If planned already, shouldn't he go because 3 days earlier he paid his respects to the victims of MH17 ?

Stop wasting our time with your idiotic conclusions man ...

Sent from my LG-G3