A baggage handling revolution?

vueling · Post by **vueling** » 27 Jun 2004, 14:24

As of Tuesday 29 June 2004, Ryanair will allow customers to take 10kg of hand luggage onto the aircraft. This is an increase of 3kg from their previously allowed 7kg.

This will be welcomed by many who prefer to travel light, and don’t want to check their luggage into the hold. In theory it is also meant to be cost saving for Ryanair, reducing the cost of baggage handling.

pee · Post by **pee** » 27 Jun 2004, 15:26

You write:

This will be welcomed by many who prefer to travel light, and don’t want to check their luggage into the hold. In theory it is also meant to be cost saving for Ryanair, reducing the cost of baggage handling.

And I agree, but it also could be a silent prelude to totally different move by Ryanair. O'Leary has already admitted that in some future they might want to eliminate other-than-hand baggage quite radically: The big change that could be coming is eliminating check-in baggage. If you do that, you can simplify the way airports are designed. You no longer have baggage haul, no handlers. No lost bags, no lost-bag departments said Ryanair's boss in the interview for German 'Spiegel Online'.<br>
And now, that kind of plans could have greater consequences, like opening a possibility of charging for all of check-in luggage (for everything what doesn't fit with the passenger), they could call it an additional service, and make money out of that. Next fragment of the interview seems to back such ideas: Maybe we'll say: If you check in luggage, you'll pay us €10 for every piece. Not necessarily a nice move. However, Ryanair could try something other, more positive as well. What if they started selling combined tickets on selected routes with one plane change allowed - accepting passengers with hand luggage only?

Captain · Post by **Captain** » 27 Jun 2004, 20:42

It's a bit alarming to hear that Ryanair are allowing more kg for carry on luggage, even though it will make things easier for the airline:

On certain long-haul flights I've been on, the check-in agent will ask to weigh your carry on luggage. Certain airlines have limits around 7kg of hand luggage per person.

Reason for the limit (apart from taking up space in the over head bins): In case a bag falls on someone's head whether a bin opened accidentaly during the flight or when a passenger opened a bin after the plane has landed. An item more than 7kg in weight would be heavy enough to kill or cause severe damage to a person's neck which could lead them to being partially paralysed.

Is there a limit for kg carry on luggage imposed by national or international air regulations? It appears that Ryanair in this case is thinking more about the money this would save than of the safety of it's passengers. 3kg could easily represent an extra small bag so would also result in less room in the already small enough overhead bins!

They are taking no-frills to the extreme!

Captain

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 27 Jun 2004, 20:49

pee wrote:Next fragment of the interview seems to back such ideas: Maybe we'll say: If you check in luggage, you'll pay us €10 for every piece. Not necessarily a nice move.

You can't take a sentence from an interview and make a point with that, I've read that interview to, and MOL has repeatedly stated every single move is aimed at lowering ticket prices, not only at making more money...

The thought behind it is that the cost of the bagage handling (wich is included in your ticket) is not payed by everyone, but only by the ones that actually have bagage... Doesn't sound unreasenable, now does it?

pee · Post by **pee** » 27 Jun 2004, 23:43

Buzz wrote:The thought behind it is that the cost of the bagage handling (wich is included in your ticket) is not payed by everyone, but only by the ones that actually have bagage... Doesn't sound unreasenable, now does it?

Right. I do not critisize the idea in its entiety. After all, O'Leary did introduce many more or less 'revolutionary' money saving ideas, the result being mostly good thing for many customers. The problem is that the more the ticket price contains every kind of 'hidden' extras, the less clear picture of travel's costs for passengers emerges. You pay symbolic 1 pound or Euro for your travel, as advertised, but then taxes, wheelchair levy, credit card surcharge and so on. And if on top of this were luggage handling charges... Well - the ticket would still be cheap, I guess, but the calculation of ticket price in advance by the customer close to impossible. And somewhat misleading. Certainly the idea could be considered - and indeed, people always can vote by buying tickets and choosing between one carrier or another.
Cheers

)
pee

bigjulie · Post by **bigjulie** » 28 Jun 2004, 10:54

It is not safe to put a too heavy bag into the overhead bins. Years ago, in the '80's, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra percussionist was flying to LAX when a bag that was too big and heavy for the o/head bin fell out. The person who's bag it was had been told not to put it in the bin but to put it under the seat or on the floor by his feet, he ignored that advice.When the bag fell out, it landed on the percussionist's arm, therebye wrecking his career in in the music industry! So I don't think it is a good idea to increase the weight llimits for cabin baggage, otherwise the same thing will probably happen to someone else: this time with worse results maybe.

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 13 Jul 2004, 21:52

First, excuses for my ignorance. I opened a new topic about this subject, but Luchtzak has closed it, fortunately.

Now they will ban the "big" luggage:

In the news section they wrote:"Ryanair unveiled its latest idea to keep prices low: banning luggage.
The airline said on Friday that it was pondering a plan to end the practice of putting large luggage in the holds of its planes, meaning passengers would be able to take only whatever small bags they can bring onto the plane.

Source: AFP"

I find this new policy ridiculous. I mean, "how low can you go"

I've read somewhere else, Ryanair finds that passengers can buy their stuff instead of taking it with them. It's totally unbelievable why on earth people would buy their own luggage, Ryanair would be more expensive than (e.g.) Easyjet by doing this. And if you buy your luggage, you want bring it anyway back to home. So, I don't think Ryanair is able to attract more passengers with this new Low Cost "service". What do you think about this new policy of Ryanair

Flying-Belgian · Post by **Flying-Belgian** » 14 Jul 2004, 11:17

Soon, you'll have to pay to use Ryanair's toilets on board

8) 8O

I don't know how deep Ryanair will dare to sink in the ridiculous...

FB.

Flying_Dutchman · Post by **Flying_Dutchman** » 14 Jul 2004, 12:55

Flying-Belgian wrote:Soon, you'll have to pay to use Ryanair's toilets on board 8) 8O

Even that would be too expensive. According to "Ryanair's low cost theory": just demolish all the toilets from board...

nwa757 · Post by **nwa757** » 14 Jul 2004, 15:24

I think this is one of the stupidest things I haver heard in a long time. Ryanair can only pray that their customers will put up with this b.s.

Also, if there are no bags in the belly of the aircraft, wouldn't that cause weight and balence issues?

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 14 Jul 2004, 16:58

I don't think O'Leary gets it does he? People are still paying to go on the non-budget carriers as can be seen by the vastly improved financial performance of these such as AF/KL, BA etc. THis means that anyone going on a two week vacation will simply use thems instead - I am now finding that there is very little price difference anyway.....expecially when I want to travel. You try booking ryanair or easyjet around christmas....

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 15 Jul 2004, 21:39

Is everyone really that stupid to think MOL is a crazy idiot who is running an airline just for fun? He has a ton of stocks in it, and an army of directors & advisors...
This could be an IDEA he just said in an interview, but if it were to be policy, you could bet it has been researched over and over, and appoved by the entire board of the airline...
He says a lot of weird stuff, but doesn't anyone realises it's all about the free publicity? You guys are helping MOL every week again, and again, and again, all he has to do is say something radical and everyone is talking about FR.
Just look on their news section of their site, every week something new to argue about...

At the end of the day, MOL is a bussines man who's fortune depends on the airline he, and a lot other people are running, so he's not a idiot on the loose, and take everything he says with a large bag of salt..

Ps: what's wrong with knowing what you pay for seperatly and being able to choose what you want? i don't see how one price with everything in it would be better, only the advertising would have to be VERY clear about those facts.

Remember, the first person to say the earth is round, what sentenced to death for it...

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 15 Jul 2004, 22:50

Hand baggage is supposed to be packed light. You only take what you need during the flight, that is suppose to be the idea

.

The bigger, heavier and the more items you have in your hand baggage the more difficult it is for the security agent to screen your bags

.

Result is that you have to open your bags en everything has to be checked manually

.

So the lines at security checkpoints are going to get longer, and the airport needs more agents to do the job

.

More agents = So where is the profit

.
Everything runs smooth without extra agents = Start questioning security

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 15 Jul 2004, 23:08

BobClaes wrote:Hand baggage is supposed to be packed light. You only take what you need during the flight, that is suppose to be the idea .

Is it? If you think convetionnelly, yes, but let's think radicly different, why pay for someone who puts your bag underneeth you if you can just keep your bags & your money with you?

BobClaes wrote: The bigger, heavier and the more items you have in your hand baggage the more difficult it is for the security agent to screen your bags .

that is why there are the 50x35x23 (I believe) maximum dimensions, and maximum 2 pieces I believe...

BobClaes wrote: Result is that you have to open your bags en everything has to be checked manually .

ever heard of X-ray?

BobClaes wrote: So the lines at security checkpoints are going to get longer, and the airport needs more agents to do the job .

remove the bagage department & build more lines instead...

BobClaes wrote: More agents = So where is the profit .

retrain some bagage handlers into agents, fire the rest of the bagage handlers, the techicians, the bagage carts drivers & the loaders, and close down the bagage department, and turn it into lucrative shopping area... (not meant to offend any people who work in this branche, just making a point)

BobClaes wrote: Everything runs smooth without extra agents = Start questioning security

security-wise, aviation is the most regulated industry, so that's not even possible...

Any more of those

because it's fun thinking up answers...

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 15 Jul 2004, 23:22

Maybe you think your answers are funny Buzz, but you sound pretty stupid.

X-Ray !, believe I work with that machine every day !. Does it do miracles ?, no it doesn't. Thats why bags have to be checked manually, because the screener and his X-Ray machine cant do the job.

What do you think is the cheapest, a baggage department / an extra X-Ray and agents to operate it ?.

"Retrain baggage handlers into agents, fire the baggage handlers and technicians, the baggage carts drivers & the loaders, and close down the baggage department". Are you living in such a naive world ?.

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 16 Jul 2004, 13:53

Buzz you should try to speak from experiance, in which you do not.

I guess it would be a great idea to get rid of all baggage handlers and tech ect..... then maybe Mr. O'leary can ask Boeing to add a reverse on all his planes that way you will not need anyone to push it back eaither.

I think you should go out and work at an airport before giving us your great answers Mr. know-it-all....

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 16 Jul 2004, 13:58

About the lucrative shopping area, Now that I am thinking about it, you might work at an airport, spraying perfume on passengers as they walk by

A318 · Post by **A318** » 16 Jul 2004, 22:14

Come on Bob, Buzz is making a point here.
If bagage handlers are not needed you can re-train them to do security work.
Now back to your point about X-ray equipment. I do notice that here in Europe equipment is not so sensitive as it is in other parts of the world, is this possible??? Reason I ask it to you Bob is the fact that I travelled from Ams to Peru and nobody discoverd a hidden nail cutter in my hand lugage. However when I tried to leave Lima - Peru I didn't pass the X-ray machine since the guy saw a nail cutter??? I didn't even know it was in since it was in a hidden part in the bag in a repair set for clothes. Years ago somebody put it there I guess. Anyway why was it not discovered on European airports before and did they saw it directly in Lima??? Better equipment, better security people....what? So don't say X-ray machines can not see everything since I experienced X-rays that saw more then 6 eyes!

Greetz,

Erwin

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 17 Jul 2004, 17:24

I am not allowed to give details so I have to be very carefully about what I say, but anyway.....

X-Ray machines and Metal detectors in Belgium are very sensitive, and we do see almost everything. Nail cutters are allowed so we don't ask you to open your bags, but believe me when I say that we see them ! I guess its up to the airport to decide what is excepted and whats not.

Only one base rule, the more items you put in your bag the more chance you have to be searched manually, so don't put to much jewelery, coins, and metal parts in your bag.

Having a forbidden item in your bag can have great consequences. People seem not to think about those things when packing there bags. But a stupid knife can cost you 250 euro minimum and will be put on your record !!!!.

Fly in the morning from BRU to Africa and the US and you see longer lines than normal, why ?. Because Americans and Africans are know for there large carry on items !!!!!. So allowing heavier bags has implications and results in more staff, longer lines and manually checking your goods.

JetB · Post by **JetB** » 17 Jul 2004, 17:31

Retraining the baggage handlers into Security agents !!!!!

It is not that simple people, not everybody can become a security agent.

You see us standing there, and must think what a great life we have (and we do) !.
But the facts are that we have to study hard and have new training programs every month.