Alitalia saved by the Government and reborn as ITA Airways

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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by sn26567 »

An interesting article by Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-alita ... SKBN17V0CK) shows that a large majority of Italians are against further State aid to Alitalia, after the State has already injected 7 billion euros (!) of taxpayer money in the company over the last ten years.

But with elections in 2018, some politicians might push for a new bailout to save the jobs of 12,500 Alitalia workers (and voters).
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by galaxy »

sn26567 wrote: 29 Apr 2017, 23:36 the State has already injected 7 billion euros (!) of taxpayer money in the company over the last ten years.

... some politicians might push for a new bailout to save the jobs of 12,500 Alitalia workers (and voters).
If I'm right , each 12.500 Alitalia worker could have 560.000 euros over the last ten years !!!

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by Passenger »

I'm pretty sure this is the first that someone here refers to an article on Kerknet.be (Catholic Church Belgium):
https://www.kerknet.be/kerknet-redactie ... -als-klant

Alitalia looses it's most famous client: the Pope.
Untill now, the Pope flew on Alitalia for outgoing flights (out of Rome), and a carrier from destination for the return flight to Rome. The Pope's visit to Fatima (Portugal) on 12-13th May 2017 is the last one of these trips. For his trip to Colombia, 06-11 Sept 2017, The Vatican is looking for another solution: they're afraid that the Alitalia flight will be cancelled and/or disrupted.

Original source:
http://www.ilmessaggero.it/primopiano/v ... 03801.html

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

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Passenger wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 16:10 Alitalia looses it's most famous client: the Pope.
Until now, the Pope flew on Alitalia for outgoing flights (out of Rome), and a carrier from destination for the return flight to Rome. The Pope's visit to Fatima (Portugal) on 12-13th May 2017 is the last one of these trips. For his trip to Colombia, 06-11 Sept 2017, The Vatican is looking for another solution: they're afraid that the Alitalia flight will be cancelled and/or disrupted.
This is not entirely correct: Pope Francis flew to Cairo on Friday (28/04/2017) and back on Saturday (29/04) with Alitalia on both legs.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

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sn26567 wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 16:17
Passenger wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 16:10 Alitalia looses it's most famous client: the Pope.
Until now, the Pope flew on Alitalia for outgoing flights (out of Rome), and a carrier from destination for the return flight to Rome. The Pope's visit to Fatima (Portugal) on 12-13th May 2017 is the last one of these trips. For his trip to Colombia, 06-11 Sept 2017, The Vatican is looking for another solution: they're afraid that the Alitalia flight will be cancelled and/or disrupted.
This is not entirely correct: Pope Francis flew to Cairo on Friday (28/04/2017) and back on Saturday (29/04) with Alitalia on both legs.
Apparently, I had too much confidence in the Catholic Church...
Quote from the article on Kernet.be: "...Sinds paus Joannes Paulus II vliegen pausen naar een gastland steevast met een vliegtuig van Alitalia en keren zij met een vlucht van een luchtvaartmaatschappij van het gastland naar Rome terug..."

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by sn26567 »

Etihad made bad choices in its two major investments in European airlines: Alitalia and airberlin.

Alitalia is dying with losses of €500k per day, but everybody seems to forget about airberlin which lost a staggering €2m per day in 2016 and Q1 2017, four times more than Alitalia (https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/air-ber ... n-per-day/).

Lufthansa said already it would not take over Alitalia (but it might be interested in the 40 aircraft owned by Alitalia, the 80 other ones being leased).

However, Lufthansa might be more interested in taking over airberlin, from which it is already leasing a large number of aircraft, if the competition authorities in Germany and the EU allow. A quick way to make Eurowings grow at a fast rate!

And Etihad? Well, I guess that the UAE oil revenues will make up for the huge losses...
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by RoMax »

Although Air Berlin is a good looking target for LHG in view of the EW Group, there are 3 very important issues: very high debts, unfavorable labor contracts and likely objections by the competition authorities. So it remains the question if a good deal can be made, especially now with the the closer relationship that follows from the wet lease deal for OS and EW, or it is better to let things for what they are, letting AB's position on the scheduled market further degrade and taking over the market at a natural pace.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Lufthansa will not take over Air Berlin or Alitalia, they are smarter than that. One scenario could be that they buy a limited part when the companies are dissolved, in order to not take over their debts. I don't know if EY could be held liable for the debts.
Lufthansa has already some of the best paid pilots in the EU, so I hardly see that as a big issue.
The competition authorities already have approved the wet-lease deal, I hardly see any opposition if they would take over those aircraft and staff in a couple of years.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

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DeltaWiskey wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 17:51 Lufthansa has already some of the best paid pilots in the EU, so I hardly see that as a big issue.
Exactly why it would be an issue to take over another bunch of people with way too expensive contracts.
DeltaWiskey wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 17:51 The competition authorities already have approved the wet-lease deal, I hardly see any opposition if they would take over those aircraft and staff in a couple of years.
AB is not a small airline, even now after continious downsizing, taking them over would be an all other case than a the current wet lease, I'm 100% sure that the German and/or EU authorities will require to dispose of certain AB activities in a take over of AB as it is today.

BTW, contrary to AZ, LHG never denied their potential interest in a future take-over of AB. Although stating that it's definitely not on the table now and also stating issues like these that would need to be resolved before making it a sensible option.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by convair »

Passenger wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 16:35
sn26567 wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 16:17
Passenger wrote: 30 Apr 2017, 16:10 Alitalia looses it's most famous client: the Pope.
Until now, the Pope flew on Alitalia for outgoing flights (out of Rome), and a carrier from destination for the return flight to Rome. The Pope's visit to Fatima (Portugal) on 12-13th May 2017 is the last one of these trips. For his trip to Colombia, 06-11 Sept 2017, The Vatican is looking for another solution: they're afraid that the Alitalia flight will be cancelled and/or disrupted.
This is not entirely correct: Pope Francis flew to Cairo on Friday (28/04/2017) and back on Saturday (29/04) with Alitalia on both legs.
Apparently, I had too much confidence in the Catholic Church...
Quote from the article on Kernet.be: "...Sinds paus Joannes Paulus II vliegen pausen naar een gastland steevast met een vliegtuig van Alitalia en keren zij met een vlucht van een luchtvaartmaatschappij van het gastland naar Rome terug..."
You're absolved, for this time; but don't do it again!

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by Passenger »

No white smoke yet coming from Rome? Or black smoke??

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by convair »

Passenger wrote: 01 May 2017, 14:09 No white smoke yet coming from Rome? Or black smoke??
Not yet but there might be a change in the procedure for the next conclave anyway. I hear Francis is considering the creation of "primaries", like in France: much more fun and months of free publicity!

Sorry mods, slightly off topic here. :) ;)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by Passenger »

I was one day wrong - I was referring to the Board meeting. But that's tomorrow, not today.


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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by Passenger »

Yuqu12 wrote: 02 May 2017, 12:38 Ciao, Alitalia!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... roceedings
Press release Alitalia:

Alitalia’s shareholders meeting, convened today, noted with deep regret the outcome of the referendum among the employees. The negative vote has determined the inability to implement the relaunch and restructuring of the Company.

Italian shareholders and Etihad, based on the strong potential growth of the company, and on an industrial plan which included a structural cost reduction of which two thirds were not related to labor costs, were committed to recapitalise and finance the plan with EUR 2 billion.

This commitment was subject to an agreement with the trade unions, which was rejected by the employees in a referendum.

The Board of Directors, which convened after the shareholders meeting, having acknowledged the serious economic and financial situation of the Company, of the unavailability of the shareholders to refinance, and of the impossibility to find in a short period of time an alternative, has decided unanimously to proceed with the filing for “amministrazione straordinaria” (extraordinary administration) in compliance with the Italian law.

Alitalia’s flight schedule will continue to operate as planned.

Source:

http://corporate.alitalia.com/en/media/ ... 05-02.html

http://corporate.alitalia.com/static/up ... -20171.pdf


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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

When will they receive the green light from the EU regarding the 600 Mio EUR bridge loan?
Even if they do, they can't wait 6 months for new investors. Everyone knows that this time window is way too long : I am sure they already see a drop in ticket sales. If they wait too much, customers will loose confidence and will fastly stick to competitors. I am curious to know if we can notice a kind of transfer from AZ to SN and FR on the Belgium - Italy routes for example...

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Will it be saved by Etihad?

Post by Passenger »

brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 04 May 2017, 08:50 When will they receive the green light from the EU regarding the 600 Mio EUR bridge loan?
As far as I know, they don't need prior approval for the loan. The Italian government has notified the European Commission about the loan, and the EC will soon open an indept investigation into it. When that investigation shows that the loan is illegal state aid, the Italian government will be forced by the EC to recover it from Alitalia: could be from Alitalia when the airline survives, could be from their successors when it's sold, could be from the bankruptcy assets when the airline files for bankruptcy.

brusselsairlinesfan wrote: 04 May 2017, 08:50...they can't wait 6 months for new investors. Everyone knows that this time window is way too long : I am sure they already see a drop in ticket sales. If they wait too much, customers will loose confidence and will fastly stick to competitors. I am curious to know if we can notice a kind of transfer from AZ to SN and FR on the Belgium - Italy routes for example...
Indeed. The immediate threat of a sudden bankruptcy has been avoided, so passengers who have booked and paid for the next weeks, will keep their bookings. And lots of Italians will probably also book for the next few months. But no one will book Alitalia for a Christmas trip to, let's say, South America.

Alitalia could set up a bond plan with IATA's BSP: Alitalia could accept that payments done through IATA agents remain wit the BSP untill a day after the return flight. That way, passengers will be refunded when Italia strands because of bankruptcy. The Belgian travel trade has done this in 2001, when Sabena asked protection against debtors, and passengers didn't want to book anymore. However, with today's high number of direct/online booking engines, Alitalia can only partially guarantuee such bond.

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