Modifications to Bertje's dispersion plan

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 20 Apr 2004, 13:00

hi,

the rway usage at BRU is still not available nowhere. Lot of people have asked for it already, some people have already sent mails to BIAC and such, but for now you will heve to learn and predict with the metar. It works pretty fine for me. Of course with the changes from the dispertion plan it hasnt become easier.

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » 20 Apr 2004, 13:13

Maybe a good tool is teletekst? http://193.121.55.225/tt/tt.php?p=308&g=1&s=1&r=1&x=1

Ukkel is not that far away from BRU so it is easy: atm, winds are comming from the Z (south) at 11 km / h or 6 knots < 15 knots max crosswinds or 27km/h. So at the moment, there is a big possibility that the dispertion plan is active.

Have a nic day, Michaël

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 20 Apr 2004, 13:27

why make it so difficult? Just look up the current metar for EBBR (for example here: http://www.piloten.be/cgi-bin/meteo/wea ... rport=ebbr)

Dispertionplan is indeed active, but for weekdays it just means 25R&L so nothing special. Its only in the weekend that it slightly differs, and of course at night but i dont think many people will go spotting then

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 20 Apr 2004, 18:00

Thx for your comment dolfke. I didn't knew that the dispertion plan would cause that much trouble to airlines

Chris

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 21 Apr 2004, 09:29

I think i't's about time that the airlines took the plan to court, if extra flying is needed = extra cost, if flights are delayed = extra cost and if the cockpit crews have no idea which runway will be in use on their arrival this could create real problems with fuel shortages and declared emergencies for this reason. OR the crews have to upload extra fuel (= extra cost) just in case of a runway change and carrying extra fuel costs fuel = extra cost.

There are two reports recently published that actually put a € cost on delays, mianly for ATC but you can get some idea of the costs involved. One of the reports actaully gives a per minute cost of €71 for flights delayed greater than 15 mins, do the figures

1 flight delayed 30 mins = €2130
10 flights = €21300
35 flights (as it was the other day in BRU because of the plan) = €74550 perhaps the airlines should go to court to recover these costs.....

just my thoughts ....
Rgds
Tony

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 21 Apr 2004, 09:37

A little question; (but off-topic)
Today (21/04) the winds are from the south, so... can someone say wich runway will be in use? The previous times rwy 20 was used when winds were Southely...

greettzzz

arthurv · Post by **arthurv** » 21 Apr 2004, 10:31

Jense wrote:A little question; (but off-topic)
Today (21/04) the winds are from the south, so... can someone say wich runway will be in use? The previous times rwy 20 was used when winds were Southely...

greettzzz

Here's the latest EBBR arrival information (10u26 local time) picked up by my scanner on 132.475 just a few minutes ago:

Code: Select all

Brussels National arrival 0828 Juliet 
expect verctoring for ILS approach
rwy 25L for arrival
transition level 55
rwy 25R for departure
winds 210 degrees, 10 knots
visibility 10 km or more
clouds few at 1200 feet, scattered at 3300 feet, broken at 5000 feet 
temperature 13
dewpoint 10
QNH 1012
no significant weather

This is the kind of information that I'd love to see online somewhere...

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 21 Apr 2004, 13:27

25 is used here because:

1. only 10 knots windspeed, while 15kts is allowed with dry weather
2. 210 isnt realy 100% crosswind anymore for 25
3. dispertionplan states usage of 25 today during day

Falcon7X · Post by **Falcon7X** » 21 Apr 2004, 21:09

To come back on the study made by the French expert. It seems to me that it's only concerning the risk for the people on the ground outside the airport area. I find it very logic that since there are fewer planes flying over a certain area, the risk to get a plane on your head in that area is smaller. The smaller the concentration, the smaller the risk. It seems that the Belgian government has again spend a lot of money on a silly study, which is in fact a simpel maths exercise.
I would like to see a study on the risk to the aircraft (and therefore the crew and the passengers) to be involved, just before or after take off or landing, due to the new procedures imposed by the dispertion plan.

regards

Falcon7x

Post by **sn26567** » 22 Apr 2004, 09:19

Excellent comments, Falcon7X.

And welcome to Luchtzak!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 22 Apr 2004, 18:19

I totally agree with you Falcon7X !! and welcome to Luchtzak

Chris

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 22 Apr 2004, 22:07

If the Luchtzak-members should be in the government...

Don't forget; if (stupid

)Mrs. Durant did not begin the discussion about the night-flights, there was not talking about a "dispertionplan"

Off-topic; saturday are winds northley (02

) and temperatures about 17° 8)
Someone interested in spotting? 8)

greettzzz

Post by **sn26567** » 23 Apr 2004, 09:15

Jense wrote:Don't forget; if (stupid )Mrs. Durant did not begin the discussion about the night-flights, there was not talking about a "dispersion plan"

The issue was not raised by Isabelita Durant, but by the inhabitants of the "Noordrand", who introduced a complaint before the court. Later, in 2002, the court of appeals decided that the burden of noise had to be equally shared between all the neighbours of the airport. Hence, the government (represented by Isabelita, Minister of Transport) had to take a decision and that's when the fun

started.

Since then, the decision of the court of appeals has been repelled, but the dispersion plan remained

When will the government take the only wise decision? (Should I remind everybody what the most sensible decision is? Drop me a message!)

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 23 Apr 2004, 16:39

Jense wrote:Off-topic; saturday are winds northley (02 ) and temperatures about 17° 8)
Someone interested in spotting? 8)

greettzzz

always 02 on saturdays in the dispertion plan