BRU-FRA-BRU with LH (27-28 Nov 03)

Post by **sn26567** » 02 Dec 2003, 10:58

Three or four times a year I have to go to FRA for business. Of course, I fly the LH monopoly (no choice) and its outrageous prices (682 € return). Usually I have mixed feelings. This time I was quite disappointed.

The flight to FRA (LH4571/UA8820) was due to leave at 8:20 on 27 Nov 03. It only arrived in BRU at that time, due to fog. It thus departed with half an hour delay from gate A62 (my boarding pass had sent me to A57, but meanwhile there had been a gate change). The plane was an Airbus A320-200 named Halle (Saale) and registered D-AIQF. I had a window seat 15A, next to my secretary in 15B (the middle seat in LH Airbuses is wider, that's why I left it to her

).

I spotted some interesting planes before take-off: the all-white BAe146 from Malmö Aviation SE-DRD; the Sobelair B738 in TUI colours OO-VAC; and, most interesting, an Aviastar-TU Tupolev 204C. Sorry, I missed the registration.

The flight itself was uneventful. In the grey sky from start to stop. A nice sandwich for breakfast, with a coffee and an orange juice. Load factor was high: about 85-90%. Very profitable for LH with such high prices!

At arrival there was no airbridge available, so we were bussed to Terminal A. The delay was still half an hour, much less than a colleague who came from Paris with AF and had to endure two cancelled planes and the refusal of AF to rebook him on LH. He had to wait for the third AF plane and arrived in time for dinner

The return flight on 28 Nov 03 was on time, but much worse. Flight LH5890, dep. 15:35 was scheduled to be on an Avro RJ85 of Lufthansa Cityline. Again we were bussed to the far end of the airport (I thought we would go to BRU by bus) and boarded D-AVRC. I had seat 17E, which means a middle seat

. What I did not know is that the LH Avros have six (6) seats abreast

. Recaro leather seats, but so much for your shoulder room

. With a load factor close to 100%, I had little hope of getting more space, but at departure three passengers from the next row were missing, so my neighbour in seat 17D moved to another seat and I took his place. What a relief!

This was not the end of the story. There were only two (2) stewardesses for 93 seats and some 85 pax! Of course, business pax were served first by both of them. The plane had already started its descent to BRU when they arrived at my row with their trolley. Hence, I skipped the sandwich and asked for a beer; I received a Warsteiner 25 cl in a glass bottle, which I had to dring in a hurry before landing. Needless to say service was bad! No time for the smallest smile.

What a difference with the SN BA RJ85 !!!

P.S. I wrote a letter of complaint to LH. I'll keep you posted. Before departure I was also handed an IATA questionnaire about the flight; I expressed my feelings vehemently there as well!

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 11:03

If you think LH crews can be surly, you ain't seen nothing until you've experienced Air New Zealand!!!

Interesting report but Warsteiner is nowhere near as good as the Maes you get on VLM (I will miss them next year!!!)

We were never lucky enough to get questionnaires when we flew ANZ!

And you were lucky to get the A-pier at BRU, I never get chance to go in there because UK flights always use B-pier

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 02 Dec 2003, 11:35

Very nice report, thanks a lot

P.S. I wrote a letter of complaint to LH. I'll keep you posted. Before departure I was also handed an IATA questionnaire about the flight; I expressed my feelings vehemently there as well

Well done André

What a difference with the SN BA RJ85 !!!

SNBA should definately start the BRU-FRA even if LH will try to kill them if they do that.
They shouldn't fear LH at all. BTW I'm sure they'll be able to steal many pax from LH since their service is much better, the seats are more comfortable and the prize is less

Ciao
Chris
8)

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 11:38

You never said the duration of the flight. How long was it?

A318 · Post by **A318** » 02 Dec 2003, 11:44

Comet wrote:You never said the duration of the flight. How long was it?

Let me guess, 55 minutes

Erwin

Post by **sn26567** » 02 Dec 2003, 11:50

1 hr 05 min on BRU-FRA; 55 min on FRA-BRU.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 11:53

It's quicker to fly by Fokker 50 between London and Brussels or Antwerp than by jet between Brussels and Frankfurt!!? I would never have thought it was that long. That's longer as well than Manchester to Brussels.

VLM claim they offer the quickest options, that just proves that they do!!!

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 02 Dec 2003, 12:27

Comet wrote:It's quicker to fly by Fokker 50 between London and Brussels or Antwerp than by jet between Brussels and Frankfurt!!? I would never have thought it was that long. That's longer as well than Manchester to Brussels.

If they really want they can do the flight much quicker. Most of the time they don't fly very quickly to be able to serve you the food etc. . But it also depends on the traffic you have @ FRA.

BTW when my dad flew from BRU to FRA with LH one or two years ago, the flight took off 25 minutes too late @ BRU and landed on time. This means they flew approximately 30-35 minutes.

Ciao
Chris
8)

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 12:33

Chris - 30-35 minutes is more what I would expect for BRU-FRA, I was surprised when Andre said how long his flights took.

I'm surprised that LH don't copy Icelandair's example and not bother with a meal and drinks service on a flight which could only take about half an hour. Aer Lingus only offered tea, coffee, juice or water on our flights of 40 minutes between MAN and DUB.

Post by **sn26567** » 02 Dec 2003, 12:48

Comet,

When I pay 682 € for a flight, I expect to ave at least some value for that money. If LH takes that away, I take the German HST called ICE between Brussels Midi and Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 12:55

Pity that VLM don't fly that BRU-FRA route, then you could experience real quality

I saw the German HST in Brussels in September. I would rather fly anyday than go on the train. My Mum keeps saying about a trip by train to Luxembourg when we're in Belgium but I don't want to!! If I go to LUX, it will be by air, either on LG or (preferably) on VLM.

What's 682 Euros in proper money? Is that expensive compared to other carriers?

Post by **sn26567** » 02 Dec 2003, 12:59

Comet wrote:What's 682 Euros in proper money? Is that expensive compared to other carriers?

The day I flew to FRA, a colleague went to Pisa with Ryanair and paid 40 € return, taxes included. 1 € = 0.7 £.

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 13:58

That is quite a difference, but you can hardly compare a full service airline with tat.

Post by **luchtzak** » 02 Dec 2003, 14:27

Avro wrote:If they really want they can do the flight much quicker. Most of the time they don't fly very quickly to be able to serve you the food etc. .

Chris,

the food-service is based upon the scheduled flighttime, if you do a 1 hour flight you will not get the same service as if you do a 3 hour flight in most of the cases. Before the flight the pilots announce the flighttime depending on routing, winds, etc... and that's the time (sometimes less) you have to take into account to do your service. That you say that pilots don't fly quickly so you can do your service is not a good opinion, I also can't imagine that in the middle of the flight you go to the pilots and ask to reduce speed because you still need to give coffee to 20 passengers

And besides that: the longer you fly the more expensive it becomes (in most cases)

I must admit that in the time of Sabena having flights to Amsterdam and Dusseldorf we had to do the 25 minutes flight with 2 flight attendants and we had to give choice of drink and a bag of peanuts to economy and a light meal for business class. That time we could ask the pilots to fly slower (250 knots) but if you are delayed that for sure wasn't possible. Then they would do the flight as fast as possible! One record that I can remember is the Dusseldorf-Brussels leg in 18 mins on RJ!! Luckily the plane was not full

Breakfasts at that time on these short flights where even more difficult! Not speaking about an Airbus 321 returning to Brussels from Amsterdam with 180 passengers on board!

Luckily a few years later they changed the service to a 'amuze-bouche' with champagne-orange juice-water for business class and a chips-dorito's or another small baggy snack with small plastic cans of orange juice-water for economy.

In this case Lufthansa had to schedule 3 flight attendants: 1 for business class to fill up the champagne! and 2 for economy class (1 distributing sandwiches and 1 bar service) however I believe that the 2 ladies could well have done a good service on that flight and with the necessary smiles!

greetings,

Bart
:rock:

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 14:49

I am surprised that airlines distribute peanuts as an in flight snack, knowing the allergy problems they can cause. Air New Zealand used to give them out, but stopped, and when I first flew VLM they handed them out, but they didn't last time. Even a sniff of a peanut can cause problems for an allergy sufferer, it is the most extreme form of allergic reaction.

On my last Sabena flights (both 50 minutes) there was a sandwich handed out (I only had one on the outward flight, it was a nice tuna one, but I got sick later so I had to decline the sandwich on the return) and also some chocolate (a Twix bar on the return because I didn't have the sandwich) which was in a Sabena wrapper. I got extra chocloate because I couldn't have the sandwich

so I got the Sabena chocloate as well as the Twix, while everyone else had a Sabena chocloate and a sandwich!

I have heard from other sources that Lufthansa's in flight catering often leaves alot to be desired, but it can't be any worse than Air New Zealand's!! The Belgian airlines have always had good inflight snacks and I've enjoyed all the ones I've had, both on SN and VG.

concordino · Post by **concordino** » 02 Dec 2003, 14:55

@Comet

So you think 1 beer is full service? And Ryanair cabin crew do smile.

I think that Andre got a particularly bad deal, no room, no food and empty pockets (I hope the company was paying)

Concordino

Comet · Post by **Comet** » 02 Dec 2003, 15:07

Concordino - I've been with full service carriers where you don't even get a beer! On Icelandair domestic flights (certainly the shorter ones) you didn't get anything.

I think the Belgian carriers are very good with their inflight service, and they do smile. The food on VLM is very nice. On my VLM flight to ANR, we were on the back row, and among the last to be served so we didn't have as long to eat our snack, but we still got the full service. I was very impressed with VLM this year, even more than last year.

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 02 Dec 2003, 17:16

André, excellent report!

About service on short flight: BA managed to serve me and the other 200 pax on a B763 from BRU to LHR (30 mins) this summer. So a miserable service like above is no excuse on a short flight. Now that LH has put a 3-3 seating in their Avro's, a crew existing of 3 people would be more than welcome.

Bad service if you ask me...

Regards
Frederic

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 02 Dec 2003, 17:33

André, you say: 'I got a middle seat'.

I assume you fly on ATB's? (or on e-tickets?). In that case, just go to the self-check in machines and select the seat you want...

Regards
Frederic

Post by **sn26567** » 02 Dec 2003, 17:40

Sabena_690 wrote:Just go to the self-check in machines and select the seat you want...

That's exactly what I did, but 1 1/2 hr before the flight there were only 4 middle seats left. No other choice

I will also now remember which bad airlines put a 3-3 seating in their Avro's: LH, KLM UK, some BA (difficult to know beforehand which ones

).

And the nice ones where seating is always 3-2: SN

Anyone to complete the list? Chris Avro?