New Asian airlines at Brussels ?

[Desert Rat]

THAI plans new Euro destinations
By The Nation

Thai Airways International (THAI) is planning to add more destinations in Europe in a move to increase revenue as it gets ready to receive 23 new planes by 2013.

Airline president Piyasvasti Amrannand said the company was eyeing four to five new destinations including Brussels and Vienna.

The expansion into Europe is among the airline's strategies to increase income.

Of the 23 new aircraft, nine Airbus A330-300s are scheduled to be delivered in June and July this year and seven more before April 2013.

In addition, six Airbus A380 jumbos will join the fleet between August 2012 and October 2013. The airline is also scheduled to receive eight Boeing 777-300s during the same period.

Piyasvasti said the aviation sector was currently highly competitive. The major factor was the fast growth of airlines in the Middle East.

Countries in the Middle East are well capitalised so they can make huge orders of new aircraft at one time.

Although soaring oil prices affect all players, including Arabian carriers, those airlines can more easily deal with the issue.

"The growth of airlines in the Middle East disturbs THAI's revenue from the international market, while domestic share is stolen by lowcost airlines," he said.

The company has revised its business strategies to cope with the changes.

For example, it has set up a superlowcost airline, Thai Wings, wholly owned by THAI.

Earlier, THAI announced a joint venture with Singaporebased Tiger Airways to run Thai Tiger Airways.

"Still, Thai Tiger Airways has not yet formed so we created Thai Wings, which will operate in the second quarter next year," said Piyasvasti.

Thai Wings will operate both domestically and around the region.

According to Piyasvasti, results in the second quarter this year were not good - as expected - due to rising oil prices and the crisis in Japan.

However, the airline hopes passenger numbers on Japan routes will recover soon.

In April, the airline adjusted fuel surcharges in a move to cope with the hike in oil prices.

Currently, jet oil costs US$125 to $128 (Bt3,800 to Bt3,900) per barrel.

The airline will not change fuel surcharges again if oil prices do not rise, said Piyasvasti.

[BrightCedars]

Airline president Piyasvasti Amrannand said the company was eyeing four to five new destinations including Brussels and Vienna.

That's some good news, it seems they want to link all the Star hubs.
However, I doubt even the latest A330-300 can make it BKK-BRU (BRU-BKK should be ok) without a load penalty.
Still looking forward to seeing TG back at BRU. With a code-share on SN, it would be a good hub to many places in SE Asia using a very popular route.

[Conti764]

Airline president Piyasvasti Amrannand said the company was eyeing four to five new destinations including Brussels and Vienna.

That's some good news, it seems they want to link all the Star hubs.
However, I doubt even the latest A330-300 can make it BKK-BRU (BRU-BKK should be ok) without a load penalty.

They could use one of their 777-200ER's on the route.

[tolipanebas]

Or the A345...

On OSL for instance, they use a mix of 772ER and A345 too.

[RoMax]

Boeing and ANA confirmed last week that the B787 will be tested by ANA in Japan from July 4 to July 8. First delivery would take place in August-September (if everything goes as currently planned, first delivery could occur in the last two weeks of August)
ANA once again confirmed that the B787 will make it possible for them to launch new routes which were impossible before. As from first delivery untill late March 2012 they will use it on domestic and intra- Asia routes. At the start of summer 2012 (so late March 2012) they will start flights to Europe and the US.

I think there is quite some chance that we'll see ANA and Thai in BRU in summer 2012... If this will indeed happen, BRU has still one to go: Singapore Airlines. At Routes Europe 2011 earlier this month BRU said in a video interview that they want to get ANA, Thai and Singapore Airlines to Brussels in the comming five years. I think SQ will be the hardest one to get in BRU again...

[BrightCedars]

I think SQ will be the hardest one to get in BRU again...

On airliners.net there is a thread about SQ apparently planning to start a long haul low-cost operation out of SIN. BRU could be a good potential destination for such a service, it is quite far from the perspective of a direct SQ flight though. I used to be a good customer of their BRU service.

[regi]

I think SQ will be the hardest one to get in BRU again...

I used to be a good customer of their BRU service.

Was this the flight Singapore-Brussels-Manchester? Friends who took it called it one of the finest connections to SE Asia. And not always the most expensive one!

[cnc]

I think there is quite some chance that we'll see ANA and Thai in BRU in summer 2012...

wow you are optimistic
i'd say 2013 or 2014 but i hope you are right because it will be my first trip to japan once ANA serves BRU

[RoMax]

wow you are optimistic
i'd say 2013 or 2014 but i hope you are right because it will be my first trip to japan once ANA serves BRU

Yes, maybe too optimistic, but at least it would be nice. If Thai has the suitable aircraft they will come to BRU, but it's the question when they will have the right aircraft available. Let's hope for summer 2012... ANA on the other hand, they say they will launch flights to the US and Europe with the B787. I can think of a few US destinations, but of the current European destinations I don't think there is one in need of the B787 to replace the current 77W's. So I think there is a high chance that they will launch one ore more new destinations in Europe, and in that case BRU has a lot of chance (star hub, SN with good connections to AFI, no flights to Japan at the moment) I think...

[sn26567]

Was this the flight Singapore-Brussels-Manchester?

Before that there was also a daily SQ 747 SIN-BRU-JFK...
Where are the times...?

[Atlantis]

Was this the flight Singapore-Brussels-Manchester?

Before that there was also a daily SQ 747 SIN-BRU-JFK...
Where are the times...?

And the latest was SIN-ZRH-BRU.


About Thai. If my memorie serves me well there are/were negociations the last three to four years and this on a very high level. But....not Thai so far on Belgian soil. It has nothing to do with the right aircraft or not, no, Thai saw no potential in the BRU market. Their focus was to develop excisting destinations and to open direct flights to AFI.

Will we see direct flights to BRU? Hard to say. It's more likely that the flight will first land in on other European city -> ATH.

[RoMax]

I
Will we see direct flights to BRU? Hard to say. It's more likely that the flight will first land in on other European city -> ATH.

I remember an article about Thai at the moment that SN joined Star. Thai said they were looking at BRU again because SN was asking for this. At that time they said they didn't know if they would come back, but they said it was possible they would start flights to BRU trough ATH.
They say they don't have the right aircraft, but indeed that may just be an excuse...
Btw, if they are looking at both VIE and BRU, can't they combine these two?

I assume that the biggest problem for the BRU-BKK route are the high amount of low-yielding pax and the lack of high- yielding pax? In that case it would be better to combine BRU with another destination, otherwise we could see Thai leaving quite fast again as they also need high-yielding pax.

I assume SIN has the same problem, low-yielding pax enough, but not enough high-yielding to make the route succesfull without combining it with another destination...

[Darjeeling]

Don't forget Lufthansa is controlling and monitoring ANY Star A. long-haul move in BRU.

Therefore, TG, SQ, NH will come (back) to BRU if and only if there is a will from Lufthansa. I think TG learnt it at its own expense not so long ago. Lufthansa has to keep the golden eggs as long as possible

Looking at the kind of traffic EY and QR is generating out of BRU, it's easy to notice there would be a wide open path for TG to be successful in BRU but...

[Conti764]

Will we see direct flights to BRU? Hard to say. It's more likely that the flight will first land in on other European city -> ATH.

Isn't it more logical for TG to just terminate at ATH and return to BKK, and let the BRU-ATH flying over to SN? They can codeshare on both routes. TG on SN BRU-ATH and SN on TG ATH-BKK. Isn't that the purpose of an alliance?

Meanwhile I wonder how it comes that BRU-Asia is a low yielding market, while BRU-US is a high yielding market?

[Atlantis]

They say they don't have the right aircraft, but indeed that may just be an excuse...

That's indeed an excuse that is often used by airlines who "want" to come to BRU while you see them expanding with aircraft who can be used to BRU. But that's how it is....

Btw, if they are looking at both VIE and BRU, can't they combine these two?

There are some cities who can be combined to BRU: ATH, VIE, ZRH and IST.

Don't forget Lufthansa is controlling and monitoring ANY Star A. long-haul move in BRU.

Therefore, TG, SQ, NH will come (back) to BRU if and only if there is a will from Lufthansa. I think TG learnt it at its own expense not so long ago. Lufthansa has to keep the golden eggs as long as possible

Looking at the kind of traffic EY and QR is generating out of BRU, it's easy to notice there would be a wide open path for TG to be successful in BRU but...

Bingo Darjeeling. You are right on top. Lufthansa is indeed controlling the whole thing: who is coming to BRU, who has to leave, who can settle a base or not.
Why do you think Easyjet has no base at BRU? Why isn't there a LCT at BRU. Is there a chance that Jet will become a Star member or not and keep their base at BRU. Lufthansa takes most pax away from BRU to put them on their own long haul flights. The last couple of months you can ask yourself who is the main shareholder: Macquarie Airports or Lufthansa

Ok we have more Star pax travelling via BRU since SN entered Star and due to some new airlines like Air Canada but everybody seems to forget that also One World is expanding at BRU.

[LJ]

Bingo Darjeeling. You are right on top. Lufthansa is indeed controlling the whole thing: who is coming to BRU, who has to leave, who can settle a base or not.
Why do you think Easyjet has no base at BRU? Why isn't there a LCT at BRU.

I think you overestimate the powers of LH. The reason that there isn't so much LCC traffic is that the market is alrady covered by another airport in the region. Moreover didn't Macquarie mentioned they don't aim at LCC traffic? LH may be powerful at BRU, but thinking it can control what airlines like easyJet are doing is a little bit too much.

BTW shouldn't we create a separate discussion? A thread dedicated to LH bashing and whining about the fact that LH is doing what it suppose to do, making sure that the interest of their shareholders and its own employees is covered before the interest of one of its (future) daughter.

Meanwhile I wonder how it comes that BRU-Asia is a low yielding market, while BRU-US is a high yielding market?

Few business ties between Belgium and Asia (mostly due to lack of historic relations). Moreover other governments are much better at attracting foreign investment from Asia than the Belgian government(s). I wonder if the US market is much better.

Looking at the kind of traffic EY and QR is generating out of BRU, it's easy to notice there would be a wide open path for TG to be successful in BRU but..

The existence of airlines as QR and EY at BRU is probably a reason why Asian airlines don't fly to BRU. Traffic

[BrightCedars]

I used to be a good customer of their BRU service.

Was this the flight Singapore-Brussels-Manchester? Friends who took it called it one of the finest connections to SE Asia. And not always the most expensive one!

I've done BRU-MAN and back in 2003 on SQ 744 (KrisFlyer award ticket) shortly before they axed BRU, but before that there was SQ345 BRU-ZRH-SIN by 744 in 2000 with twice a return SQ334 SIN-CDG-BRU also by 744. However due to the limited frequency I sometimes had to fly to SIN on SQ connecting at AMS or CDG. I also flew SQ several times from SIN to Asia and Australia. SQ is still my top airline by mileage to date (68,000). Only CX gives them a run for their money in my opinion. But I should probably take a few flights these days on EK, EY, QR, MH, CX and SQ to refresh my judgment, 2000 is a long time ago already!

[BrightCedars]

Was this the flight Singapore-Brussels-Manchester?

Before that there was also a daily SQ 747 SIN-BRU-JFK...
Where are the times...?

Forgot to mention that, well I didn't fly SQ at that time, it was in the 90's. Now they use their slots for cargo operations, what a pity!

[BrightCedars]

The existence of airlines as QR and EY at BRU is probably a reason why Asian airlines don't fly to BRU. Traffic

Exactly. QR and EY pray on this connecting market with lower cost (if anything they don't carry the fuel all the way and use aircraft at their most optimal range). EK will probably join the bandwagon at one point in time.

Asian carriers can however build an operation in BRU but indeed you need the right factors in place:

- Adequate aircraft (ideally B787, A350, in some cases A332 will do)
- Adequate frequency (3 per week is a minimum)
- Nonstop (better deal than the Gulf trio)
- A local partner in your alliance of choice

This will insure that the higher yield part of the traffic will be on them whether in First, Business, or Premium.

TG has a good card to play but indeed they don't have the aircraft required (they used to fly the MD-11 when they were codesharing with Sabena, up to 5x a week); an A330-300 can't make it, they don't have A332's. They would benefit from SN's local network and SN would benefit from their local network.

SQ is even more stressed on the aircraft part as the distance BRU-SIN doesn't allow even an A332 (although it seems AF runs it on SIN or HKG?), which they don't have to begin with.
They would benefit from SN's local network and SN would benefit from their local network, but to a lesser extent than with TG as SIN is further down the road so there is some backtracking involved (longer flying times).

NH is another story. The Gulf is not such a threat as the detour via AUH/DOH/DXB is quite lengthy, but they also need the adequate hardware. They would benefit SN's local market while SN would re-enter Japan but I don't see it being a main Asia hub, more an O&D route.

In fact, my conclusion would be that it could be better for SN to serve Asia (e.g. BKK and NRT) with a few A332's that would also run BOS and JFK. Long leg/short leg shared over a 2 day rotation. This of course in very close cooperation with TG and NH. BKK is the hub and NRT is the link with Japan. Elsewhere but outside of Star's core realm, HKG is said to be a worthy route out of BRU and could fit in this kind of Asian adventure. An adventure that would prevent being so exposed to a single market (Africa).

[regi]

About Thai. If my memorie serves me well there are/were negociations the last three to four years and this on a very high level. But....not Thai so far on Belgian soil. It has nothing to do with the right aircraft or not, no, Thai saw no potential in the BRU market. Their focus was to develop excisting destinations and to open direct flights to AFI.
Will we see direct flights to BRU? Hard to say. It's more likely that the flight will first land in on other European city -> ATH.

Quite strange. A very high official of Thai told during a meeting in 2010 that the only reason for not returning to Brussels was that Thai had not enough airplanes. When I replied that they were looking to get rid off their A340's which would be an excellent airplane to do the non stop flight, this TG official shut up. It was not my intention to "know it better". But this official could have answered accordingly for example that those A340's had another purpose. But no reply in front of aviation specialists ( not me btw) was probably more a sign that this official had no clue that they had A340's on sale.
TG started in the mean time a cargo operation, run by the FRA office, at AMS. So there was expansion on Europe. But Brussels was not in the game. Why?
Not because of Etihad or Qatar. Don't forget that at the moment of that anouncement in 2010 Qatar wasn't flying yet to Brussels. ( don't remember exactly when the Qatar flight was anounced, somewhere to find in this forum )
Remains the question "why not".
Low yield? So how can Thomas Cook survive the direct Phuket connection?
An interesting idea would be to connect it to a regional destination such as Dublin, Scotland, northern England, without an airplane change, to compete against the Gulf region carriers.