Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

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Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by sn26567 »

Boeing executives are telling employees a launch decision for a new airliner aimed at the “middle of the market” (MOM) could be made by the end of the year.

Since at least 2012, Boeing has identified a gap in the market between the single-aisle 737 Max 9 and the twin-aisle 787-8. A two-year series of discussions with customers revealed a consensus for an aircraft with about 20% more range and payload than a 757-200.

The 737 Max 9 has struggled to compete against the Airbus A321neo, which is outselling Boeing’s re-engined product by more than a five to one margin. Sales of the 787-8 also have cooled off since the introduction of the stretched 787-9.

But the company has a six-year backlog of major commercial projects already in development, starting with the entry into service of the 737 Max 8 next year. The 787-10 is scheduled for delivery in 2018, followed by the 777-9 in 2020 and then the 777-8.

A MOM aircraft is not likely to appear before 2022, giving Boeing at least six years to complete development if a programme is launched later this year.

Several potential customers, such as Air Lease founder Steven Udvar-Hazy, have pressured Boeing to deliver a clean-sheet aircraft that combines the range and payload of a small widebody, such as the 767-200, with the operating economics of a narrowbody like the 737-800.

Two industry analysts have concluded such an aircraft would likely require a new fuselage shape – elliptical instead of circular – to reduce aerodynamic drag while still providing enough payload.

Such an aircraft also may require new engines sized in a thrust-class between existing narrowbody and widebody engines, leading GE Aviation chief executive David Joyce to speculate last year that a clean-sheet engine design would be required.

But other concepts are reportedly under consideration, including a larger version of the 737 Max.

Full story in FlightGlobal: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ar-421802/
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Re: Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by sn26567 »

Air Lease Corporation CEO Steve Udvar-Hazy predicts that Boeing will eventually respond with a competitor to the very successful A321LR, and the the manufacturer may be best off simply upgrading its old B757 design with new engines, interiors and other items, instead of starting from a clean sheet.

Coming from him, it means that the real successor of the 757 is indeed the A321LR.
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Re: Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by sn26567 »

The enlightened opinion of Jon Ostrower, aviation specialist of the Wall Street Journal (formerly wityh Flight Global):

What are Boeing’s options for a middle market airplane between 737 Max and 787-8?

1. Replace the 757? Bring it back with with new engines, aero improvements, new interior, flight deck. Twice considered, twice rejected.

2. Leverage the past to create a future: Stretch 737 fuselage + taller gear, bigger engines & new wings. Is it still a 737? Ask the FAA.

3. Old small twin, new small twin. 767-200/300 slimmed down, cleaned up with new generation engines. An Everett “Max“.

4. Bring on MoM (middle of the market): All-new midrange small twin-aisle. Boeing’s first all-new airplane for its second century. Bold and very, very expensive.

5. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ do nothing.
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Boeing 797 on its way?

Post by MD-11forever »

United Looks at Boeing `Paper Plane' and Likes What It Sees

Jetliner on drawing board, dubbed 797, would debut in 2025
Airline’s endorsement may help support business case for model


(Bloomberg) -- 
United Airlines has taken a close look at an all-new jetliner that Boeing Co. engineers are developing for trans-Atlantic flying, and likes what it sees.

“What we’ve seen so far is very, very interesting to us,” Andrew Levy, United’s chief financial officer, said in an interview Tuesday. “We certainly hope Boeing launches the airplane. We think there is a need for it.”

An endorsement from United, a large Boeing customer, would go a long way toward making the business case for so-called middle-of-market jetliners. Boeing has honed its design to seat between 225 and 260 passengers, while working to bring production costs in line with prices that airlines are willing to pay.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a decision to offer by this year,” John Plueger, chief executive officer and co-founder of Air Lease Corp., said of the first step in Boeing’s process to formally introduce a new jetliner. “That might be a bit early, a bit aggressive. But that would not surprise me.”

United had been among the skeptics of the jets that Boeing has spent years developing to fill the gap in its product line-up between the largest of the narrow-body 737 models and the smallest 787 Dreamliners. While Boeing is designing a twin-aisle aircraft with the range to fly from London to New York, budget carriers are shifting more mid-range flying to relatively inexpensive narrow-body jets such as Airbus Group SE’s A321neo.

United Convinced

After delving deeper into the Boeing design, “we’re convinced, we get it. We understand the economics,” Levy said in an interview at the ISTAT annual conference in San Diego. “We thought a twin made no sense, but we walked through it and had our questions answered. From what we’ve seen, we like it. But it’s a paper airplane. Hopefully they’ll launch it.”

Timing and price are two of the critical elements that Boeing must consider in its high-stakes chess match with Airbus for market dominance. Billions of dollars of investment are at stake, and the payoff can be thwarted by factors ranging from cheap oil to supplier stumbles. Boeing has been planning its new family of mid-range aircraft, while Airbus has been marketing upgrades of existing jetliners: the A321, its largest narrow-body, and A330 wide-body jets.

Boeing’s jet, which would probably be known as the 797, may begin flying in 2025, said Steven Udvar-Hazy, who co-founded Air Lease and is influential in shaping product strategy for Boeing and Airbus. The engine technology and break-through design of the new aircraft will be critical since it may fly through 2060, he said.

Magic Blend

Udvar-Hazy isn’t convinced that Boeing has figured out the magic blend of price, performance and production costs that will make the 797 a best-seller.

“Boeing has to really wrestle with that issue,” he told reporters Tuesday. “As we sit here today, the cost of developing and manufacturing the airplane at a price that gives the airlines value -- I don’t think that equation has been solved.”

That’s the most difficult task Boeing has, especially after what happened with the 787, when they “grossly under-estimated the R&D,” Udvar-Hazy said in reference to the Boeing carbon-composite jet, whose costs are thought to have ballooned past $50 billion. “I don’t think Boeing wants to make a mistake, so they are really pinning down what it takes to make that airplane,” he said.

Two Models

Boeing envisions two models to fill the overlapping market segments served by its out-of-production 757 narrow-body and 767 wide-body jets, which were developed jointly in the late 1970s and early 1980s and share the same cockpit design.

“One will be bigger and fly not quite as far, one will be smaller and fly farther,” Randy Tinseth, a Boeing marketing vice president, said in an interview. “To some extent you address the single-aisle market, to some extent you address the wide-body market and to some extent you are stimulating growth where no one has been before. And that has been a fascinating part of the whole project.”

Airbus could counter by improving the wing design of the single-aisle A321neo to yield another 2 percent to 3 percent in fuel savings, or undercutting Boeing on price with a cheaper, lighter version of the A330neo, Udvar-Hazy said. The European planemaker wouldn’t need to consider an all-new aircraft unless the Boeing plane proves to be a sales smash, he said.

United Continental Holdings Inc. eventually will need to replace the 128 Boeing 757 and 767 jetliners in its fleet, and has studied Airbus’s A321neo as a possible substitute for the aging narrow-body, particularly on flights from the eastern U.S. to Europe, Levy said.

“The 767 replacement that is available now is bigger than we’d like,” he said. “The 757 replacement that is available now is the A321, which is a great airplane. It can do 90 percent, maybe 95 percent of what we’d like it to do. But the other 5 to 10 percent is really critical.”


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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Nice to learn about it... and curious to see what it is gonna be... In my opinion, this new plane - 797 - is gonna be a huge success as it seems to cover the 737/787 gap, thus meeting a significant demand!

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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

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On that market Airbus has already the A321LR.
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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by sean1982 »

sn26567 wrote:
09 Mar 2017, 21:13
On that market Airbus has already the A321LR.
Yeah, but that's an .... airbus :( :lol:
(Tongue in cheek)

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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by Devon Rex »

Seems more like a replacement for the 757...
Last edited by Devon Rex on 20 Jun 2017, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by luchtzak »

Yesterday evening I added the following picture with the article: Image

... it was not the correct picture ... :?

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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

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How could it be the correct picture? The characteristics of the plane have not even been defined!
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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by luchtzak »

sn26567 wrote:
21 Jun 2017, 09:35
How could it be the correct picture? The characteristics of the plane have not even been defined!
I was misinformed :lol:

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Re: Boeing 797 - Boeing wants to start developing a new mid-size aircraft before year-end

Post by sn26567 »

Boeing says its potential B797 fuselage will be carbon fibre plastic composite – and will not have the typical cross-section, but rather an elliptic one.
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