Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[sn26567]

There is a first case of Ebola virus in Dakar, Senegal. This is the fifth country in West Africa contaminated with the virus (let's not forget Nigeria, where SN is not flying).

To make things clear, SN is not the only airline flying to these countries. Royal Air Maroc has not stopped flying either.

[FlightMate]

Flying to ebola-land is a commercial decision. I just hope they won't regret it.

If people learn that a contaminated pax flew SN, you can be sure bookings will suffer.

[Inquirer]

Meanwhile, the allegedly infected doctor which is referred to above ad first case in Europe is diagnosed not to have Ebola. Too many assumptions are taken for facts by people who are clearly not letting truth get in the way if a story which fits their biased vision. It's becoming routine on this forum, as if we have 2 camps, living in 2 different worlds. Ebola is surrounded by way too much hysteria, IMHO and discussions like these simply add to it.

[sean1982]

Like you are not in one of those camps. Something about a pot and a kettle

[Lysexpat]

Too many assumptions are taken for facts by people who are clearly not letting truth get in the way if a story which fits their biased vision. It's becoming routine on this forum, as if we have 2 camps, living in 2 different worlds.

Exactly, those, like yourself, who think it is unsafe to fly minimum LEGAL fuel think it is safe to fly to Ebola countries and the opposite.
Both are commercial decisions based on risk assessment, but if it goes wrong they bring a lot of bad publicity. I do fear however, that we don't know everything about Ebola yet and thus rhe risk assessment could be based on wrong assumptions.

[Inquirer]

Like you said, until proven wrong, a professional take goes above what I personally think as I am not a professional in medics nor aviation, yet I notice quite a few people here have become virologist (or meteorologist for the other matter) almost overnight.

What I find strange is that they do not for a second consider that in the absence of a total suspension of flights between Belgium and Ebola infected countries and their widely expressed fear and near certainty that Ebola may already be imported in our country and continent through the airport of BRU, all of the airport's facilities must in fact be Ebola infected too by now then and so they should by their own logic also be vehemently calling upon any other airlines to avoid BRU all together to the very same degree and for the very same sanitary reasons they were widely explaining in relation to the affected areas and the airlines serving those.

[A321er]

Hi there,
Although I have been visiting the forum regularly over the last 5 years, I never really bothered nor took the time to be an active member and enroll me. That's now a done thing and I do thank Flanker2 for that .
But I'll come back on this later on.

On this particular topic, a touchy one, I fully agree that each opinion is enriching and needs to be respected since it is not far (if far at all) from real personal values (beliefs, politics, information and/or misinformation). Nevertheless, and I shall never stop thanking Flanker2 mainly for giving me that little push in the back to register, I believe that lots of non objective items are thrown here a bit too fast /easily.

Let me get to my point. Unless your personal values are close to survivalist people and/or a bit extreme (again with all due respect), some reactions do make me freak out much more than Ebola itself ... Flanker2, do not feel concerned, your anti-SN bashing is leaking so much out of your posts that I even exclude you from the so called "reactions" That said are you sure you're not infected with an SN Brussels bashing Ebola like virus (seeing so much SN bashing sweat) ? ... joking

So let's get back to that Ebola topic. Again, unless you are a deep believer of the conspiration theories or a survivalist, one would tend to believe in the guidelines issued by CDC or WHO (present or former members).
What do they say (ever bothered to read that ?) ?
Ebola is only transmissible once the patient shows signs of the sickness (guess everyone knows that these signs usually are rather visible ...). Hence during the incubation period (up to 21 days) an Ebola subject cannot transmit the virus. Next to this, one should be aware of the measures in place upon check-in of an airliner in the affected countries (my uncle shuttles regularly between Belgium, Africa and Asia for his job and has gone twice recently through these checks, once on SN once on AF). I won't take more space to quote these measures you can find them back easily on the web.

Now (again unless a "big" shadow organization hides the truth from us) how do you effectively catch the virus ?
Through getting in contact with fluids, blood etc of an infected patient into/onto YOUR lesioned skin or open wound/direct contact with your eyes or other membranes. But, hey, I am sure most of you actually know this...

So the next question, probably core, and again for objective minds questionable is: are the crew members, passengers and bottom line Belgium or the rest of Europe at risk with SN Brussels flying to these countries ?
That's the interesting part which led me to react on this topic. Sure there is a risk ... a small one as indicated by CDC and WHO among others ... The almost exact same small risk of having one of us cheating on his/her partner whilst wearing a condom but being so unlucky to get in contact with some fluids or blood of an infected HIV partner and not testing though for HIV during months or years, the almost exact same risk the KLM, Singapore and others took whilst keeping flying to Asia when SARS was spreading (a bit less than 50% of the Ebola casualties in a slightly longer period).

Again everyone probably has his own answer on this question and on the voluntary shocking examples I took above (although not unrealistic IMHO). But let's dig even further now, do you (Flanker2 among others) really believe that the Belgian Ministry of Health would not ask the Ministry of Transport to suspend SN flights to these countries if they were really freaking out for an outbreak in Belgium ? Don't you think that it would not be easier for these people to act pro-actively and by caution sake to do so ? So why don't they do so ? All stupid people ? Com'on ... I do not even speak of the US authorities which could deny entry to anyone coming from such countries through Brussels, Paris or any other hub ... Also stupid people I guess ?

Now, what about SN in this story ? Do they take a risk according to me ? Yes. A small one unless again health org. are totally wrong on their diagnosis of the virus. Big enough to suspend their flights there ? No, I don't think so. By the way, the media "buzz" around this forgets swiftly that Air France among others still fly to Guinea and Nigeria for example. There is not only Freetown in that part of the world ...

Sorry to hammer on this but when I read Flanker2 stating that blood tests should be done upon arrival at the airlines costs ... I almost collapse Infected people do only show positive blood tests once they are contagious ... Hence with visible sickness symptoms ... The result of a PCR blood test is not available in a blink of an eye dude... Hence, as far as arrival checks are concerned, the swiftest way would be to take a temperature test with still a risk of having in front of you an incubating patient ...

As someone was stating earlier on, the Spanish influenza reached Europe with no air traffic back then. I am afraid that shutting air-links is a bit like wishful thinking. Whether the costs have to be borne by the airlines or by authorities still allowing air-links is a non-event to me (own opinion of course).

Sticking back to SN now, everyone is of course entitled to have his own opinion on their choice of flying there. Still, for a non airline pro (I am a biologist), I am amazed that no one mentioned that aside from the financial aspects, they seem to be coherent with their Sabena roots in Africa. You can't pretend you are the airline of choice when it comes to Africa and leave the continent at the first gunshot or risk (like in this case); this might hurt some fellow forum members bashing SN but ... sorry they seem to be consistent with their marketing in this case.

To conclude this long post (injecting my 5 years of silence sorry for that), what strikes me the most in some posts is to see (thanks again Flanker2 ) the Middle Ages spirit in some comments. Once again everyone one of us has the right to have his/her own respectful opinion but some comment do so much highlight that tiny (dorp/village) short sighted opinion which reign in Belgium nowadays ... let's close the borders, build some fences and walls around the dorp/village and fight the nasty neighbors out of our castle soil (once we'll be finished with the neighboring cities we ll attack other Walloons or Flemish people) ...even if this is your opinion, you'll probably be more successful in changing the world you don't like from within than to shut your windows and close the city access ...

Only my (long) 5 cents on this story though ...

Cheers.

[FlightMate]

Very nice first post, A321er.

While I preach for SN to stop flying to Ebola countries, I don't do it to make SN lose money.
While it is true the risk of contamination is low, all it takes is for one pax to slip through, and SN will suffer badly from bad publicity, if not from court cases.

After all, AF, BA, EK, all except SN and RAM stopped flying there.
Hard to justify a position when you're the only one doing it.
They will come up with arguments like "the government didn't forbid it", but that won't help.

It's a bet they're taking, I hope it's the correct one.

[Flanker2]

Dear A321ER, thank you for joining and sharing your views.

First I would like to correct the way you are quoting me, because you must admit that you're forgetting kind of a major detail:

I quote myself:

with an Ebola test kit waiting on arrival back in Europe and quarantine until results are known

I also think that SN should adopt a responsible behavior and subject all people coming back from those destinations to a quarantine and blood test, in order to avoid the spread into Europe.

I'm not a doctor but I know how a virus works more or less.

If they can only take meaningful blood samples 21 days into the quarantine to rule it out, then they should be quarantined for 21 days. If they can already detect anti-bodies sooner, then the quarantine should be shorter.
If they have other methods that detect it sooner, then it's even better.

However, people coming from high-risk countries should not be allowed to walk in the general population, amongst our children and loved ones. It's their decision to fly to/from Europe from those countries, so they should bear with the consequences.

When I see so many airlines cancelling routes at a cost of several millions to them, I can say with confidence that there are professional people who have made a risk assessment and concluded that the risk is not worth the continued operation of those routes.

Also, I would like to remind you that the French government has made a risk assessment and has concluded that the risk is high in Liberia and requested AF to stop flying there. This means that the Belgian government's public health administration does not agree with France's equivalent department's assessment, as it allows SN to continue their operations there.

So If I have a Middle-age mentality according to you, then the French government, AF, and several other airlines do too. So one has to ask oneself whether the Belgian "modern" mentality is really the right one or whether the evolved mentality is the voice of idiots.


Sorry to say so if you believe in our system, but Belgium is a country where the administration does not feel accountability for human life.

I remind you the train accident in Wetteren, where people have been affected, but yet have to receive any form of compensation from the government-owned entity.
The same for the accident in Halle, where people have only seen a miserable compensation. 4 years later, only 4 million euro's had been paid for 18 deaths, 11 serious injuries, and 157 injuries.

I also know people who have been victims of accidents with De Lijn public transportation without third parties involved, who have had to pay their own medical bills as the goverment "experts" just dismiss the injuries as being pre-existing conditions.

[b-west]

Welcome A321ER. Nice first post. You forgot one thing though: flanker2 is a troll. A good one, I must give credit where credit is due, as he can camouflage his trolling quite well, but an ordinary troll nonetheless. He has made SN his victim of choice and is determined to make whatever they do or not do look like the greatest mistake ever. To that end he used whatever info he can find, mainly from Wikipedia and other online sources, and states them as undeniable facts. Even when confronted with the truth from people who actually have real, first hand experience and knowledge about certain things, whether it be the location of Kinshasa N'djili airport or the brake fluid of an aircraft, he shall vehemently question their expertise and stick to his story. Until it really becomes all too crystal clear he's just bulshitting. At that point he'll vanish from the topic and most likely disappear from the forum itself for a few days, until he assumes the storm has passed. At that point he'll return to his favourite sport of trolling in another topic. I've observed this behaviour in him many times over the years that I've been active on this forum. I've decided some time ago not to react to this obvious trolling any longer, though unfortunately not everybody has. So, even though, A321ER, you may come with a perfectly reasonable and well documented explanation for why SN keeps flying to West Africa and how exactly ebola works, you're fighting a lost cause, at least when it comes to our trolling friend.

[airazurxtror]

http://www.medias24.com/ECONOMIE/ECONOM ... a-RAM.html
http://www.air-journal.fr/2014-08-31-vi ... 13656.html

Short extract :
To date, only two airlines, Brussels Airlines and Royal Air Morocco, continue to serve Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea-Conakry, the countries most affected by the Ebola virus.
But the staff of the RAM is concerned about the health consequences in the absence of the right to opt out of these flights, reports Media 24 site.
The staff believes that the risks are particularly high on flights of four hours if a passenger shows symptoms of the virus. Testimonials from pilots to Media24 explain that the "direction make such decisions behind their desks while (the crew) is considered cannon fodder. "

Royal Air Maroc continues its flying to Conakry, Monrovia and Freetown respectively in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone by "African solidarity," she said.

[A321er]

is it so that Air France has stopped its operations to/from Guinea Conakry ?
Believed they still operate there.
Cheers.

[sn26567]

Brussels Airlines management reassures Ebola states

Chief Executive Officer of Brussels Airlines has reassured citizens of Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea of airlines’ continuous service, despite the current Ebola pandemic ravaging the three Mano River states.

Mr. Bernard Gustin was addressing a delegation of the Sierra Leone government comprising the Transport and Aviation Minister, Leonard Balogun Koroma (Logus), Sierra Leone’s Ambassador to the Kingdom of Belgium and Head of Mission to the EU, Ambassador Ibrahim Sorie and Acting Head of Chancery, Witson T. Yankuba at the company’s Zavantem office in Brussels, Monday, September 1st.

“We have a tradition to be close to Africa. We are very proud and dedicated in continuing our operations in Sierra Leone, Liberia and Guinea”, stated Gustin.

The Brussels Airlines Chief Executive said the decision by Senegal last week to stop the airline from landing in Dakar was a unilateral one. He however showered praises on President Dr. Ernest Bai Koroma for “his swift intervention by contacting his colleague Head of State in Senegal to reconsider the decision”.

He continued, “we are very much encouraged on the intervention of your President which was very timely and we hope such conversations will continue at the highest levels. Your visit also to us in Brussels to explain to us the measures that have been put in place at the Lungi International Airport has given us double assurances”.

Earlier, Minister Logus Koroma informed the Brussels Airlines management team that he was directly sent by President Koroma to personally come to Brussels to deliver his message of thanks and appreciation on his own personal behalf and on behalf of the people and government of Sierra Leone to the management of Brussels Airlines for standing by Sierra Leone during this trying times in our country.

“You’ve demonstrated clearly that you are true friends of Sierra Leone. You showed that during our country’s rebel war and you’ve done that again”, the Minister re-echoed.

Minister Koroma briefed the Brussels Airlines management team which also included the Airlines Vice President Sales Africa and Global Cargo, Philippe Saeys-Desmedt and Chief Commercial Officer, Lars Redeligx about the rigorous screening measures that have been put in place at the Lungi International Airport to prevent any passenger with the slightest symptom of unusual temperature from boarding any flight.

“All our energies and work are directed to tackling this Ebola pandemic as it has greatly affected the socio-economic fabric of the country”.

He added that the Brussels Airlines management has actually not realized the magnitude of what they’ve done for Sierra Leone. “Had your airline stopped flying to Sierra Leone as was done by the other European airlines, our country would have been completely shut down and isolated from the rest of the world. President Koroma would like to thank you very much and hope Brussels Airlines will continue to fly to Sierra Leone”.

Ambassador Ibrahim Sorie explained the proactive steps taken by the Embassy since the outbreak of the Ebola crisis; ranging from diplomatic and direct engagements with airlines management, Foreign Ministries in the countries of accreditation and international NGOs like UNICEF – Belgium. He promised to continue the diplomatic offensive, especially with Air France/KLM to have them revisit their decision to stop flying to Sierra Leone.

- See more at: http://www.sierraexpressmedia.com/?p=70 ... luGkR.dpuf

[airazurxtror]

All airlines of the occidental worl have stopped flying to the Ebola zone, bar Brussels Airlines - which thus pictures itself as a third world airline.
But we have the gratitude of the Sierra Leone ambassador, that is something.

[Passenger]

All airlines of the occidental worl have stopped flying to the Ebola zone, bar Brussels Airlines - which thus pictures itself as a third world airline.
But we have the gratitude of the Sierra Leone ambassador, that is something.

Brussels Airlines recognizes this statement by the World Health Organization regarding ebola:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/not ... travel/en/

The medical ebola fighters are extremely happy that Brussels Airlines continues to fly there. It's about the only way left to deliver the necessary equipment to fight ebola.

But then - it's Brussels Airlines - and that's the reason for posts like yours above, isn't it?

[sn26567]

All airlines of the occidental world have stopped flying to the Ebola zone, bar Brussels Airlines

Air France is still flying to Conakry.

SN has charged up to 4000 euros for an economy return ticket to Freetown. This was justified by the fact that two flights had been cancelled and the waiting list to Freetown had grown to 700 persons. SN also says that operational costs have increased with the additional stop in Dakar. The price of a ticket should become more "normal" as traffic has now stabilised.

[sn26567]

Thanks to Brussels Airlines, a 5,000 pound shipment of medical supplies donated by NOSLINA has made it to Freetown, Sierra Leone.

[airazurxtror]

"Le Soir" today page 33 :
Le risque d'importation du virus Ebola sur le sol belge serait compris entre 5 et 10% d'ici le 22 septembre, selon une étude menée par des chercheurs de la Boston University. C'est un risque important car la maladie a une létalité très élevée ( taux de mortalité actuel : 52%).
Selon cette étude, la Belgique se situe en deuxième position des Etats développés les plus à risque d'importer Ebola.
Le Prof. Bottieau, de l'Institut des maladies tropicales d'Anvers explique : ce n'est pas vraiment étonnant, on reste un des derniers pays à être directement en contact (aérien) avec les zones contaminées.
Le Prof. Piette, virologue au CHU de Liège : Le risque d'importation semble le plus important via les personnes des soins humanitaires, au contact direct avec les malades.

The risk of importation of the Ebola virus on Belgian soil would be between 5 and 10% by September 22, according to a study conducted by researchers from Boston University. This is a significant risk because the disease has a very high mortality rate (current rate of mortality: 52%).
The study found that Belgium is in second place of the developed countries most at risk of importing Ebola.
Prof. Bottieau, of the Institute of Tropical Diseases in Antwerp says: This is not really surprising, Belgium remains one of the last countries to be in direct contact (by air) with contaminated areas.
Prof. Piette, a virologist at the University Hospital of Liège: The risk of importation seems most important through people doing humanitarian aid, in direct contact with patients.

(this is only a partial summary of the article)

[airazurxtror]

Brussels Airlines est la seule compagnie non africaine à encore relier les trois pays les plus touchés par le virus Ebola. On lui reproche de prendre des risques inconsidérés, voire d’être opportuniste financièrement. Son CEO, Bernard Gustin, s’en défend. Bien que battant des records de fréquentation, la compagnie restera dans le rouge en 2014. Entretien.

Brussels Airlines, the only non-African company to still connect the three most affected countries by the Ebola virus, are accused of taking excessive risks or to be opportunistic financially. Its CEO, Bernard Gustin, denies it.
Although enjoying record-breaking attendance, the company will remain in the red in 2014.

Full interview (available only to LLB subscribers) :
http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... e610421df5

[Passenger]

On lui reproche...

Indeed : "on lui approche...".

But who is "they"? At least not the World Health Organization. The WHO is extremely thankful that Brussels Airlines keeps those poor countries online.

Is it unsafe to fly to/from "ebola" countries? The answer is here:
viewtopic.php?p=304193